Slo-Mo and REDCODE RAW questions...

Haakon said:
The focal length makes sense to me, but the DOF change doesn't. If you shoot a 4K image with a 35mm lens and crop it so you just see the middle part (which is what you're doing with a 2K window, right?) then the DOF hasn't changed - it's the exact same image. You're just seeing less of the picture (which results in an appeared increase in the focal length).
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Crap, you're right, my fault.
 
And that's an issue as I want to shoot everything in 4K REDCODE raw. I don't want to switch to 2K REDCODE RAW for more FPS, because it changes the DOF and the focal length. A less compressed 4K REDCODE RAW would be a very nice option.
 
Brook Willard said:
Crap, you're right, my fault.
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Hehe, no problem my friend. With so many different recording options/formats/configurations on the new camera, it's getting a bit hard to keep track of everything. To make matters worse, a lot of the numbers and calculations seem to get mixed up even at the in-house level (it's 100x compression! wait... no, 25x!), :) and then there are confusing terms and identifiers (It's 4K RAW - wait, does that mean 4K uncompressed RAW, or 4K REDCODE RAW? Was that calculation in MB or Mb?), and it's no surprise that things are starting to get a bit tangled.

I think we need some clear, definitive charts that outline without question what is capable in each configuration (and how much data it takes to record it!) to help get us back on track.
 
I guess my suggestion of shooting 4k scaled down to REDCODE RAW 2k is not an option. Would be nice tough.

So, is it possible to record 2k RGB in camera, on the RED-DRIVE? Or is this over 150MB per second and only for FLASH or RAID?

Could someone from the RED-TEAM please give some clearness to all the recordingmodes since there seem to be different versions of it.

Thanks!
 
Haakon said:
Christian Berg said:
But can the RED camera shoot with 35mm lens/4k and scale down in camera to 2k redcode raw?
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Yes, you can do that.
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No, you cannot do that.

1) 2K RAW is windowed (cropped), not scaled

2) 2K RGB is scaled or windowed

3) Onboard 4K RAW up to 30 fps

4) External raid recording 4K RAW up to 60 fps, 2K Up to 120 fps (RAID details have not been announced yet)

5) Onboard 2K RAW up to 60 fps
 
The most recent ASC manual has an interesting perspective on focal length and DOF. The idea is that DOF will stay the same between two equal focal lengths regardless of the format that they're used with. To clarify:

25mm on S16
25mm on S35

The 25mm on S35 will be fairly wide... FOV of "X" and DOF of "Y"
The 25mm on S16 will be fairly narrow... FOV of ".5X" and DOF of "Y"

The DOF remains the same because the "longer" lens on the S16 counteracts the smaller format to make it equivalent to the "shorter" lens on the larger format.

I know this isn't really relevant, it just popped into my head. Makes stuff even more confusing, eh?
 
robl said:
No, you cannot do that.
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Sorry, I read it as "can you scale down to 2K from 4K in camera," and didn't realize he said raw. I still think "onboard" is quite misleading, however. How else are you going to record with the camera?
 
Brook Willard said:
If you shoot 2K windowed with a 35mm lens, you'll double the lens's apparent focal length. That is, if you use a 50mm S35mm lens and shoot 2K windowed, you'll get the equivalent of a 100mm S16mm lens with S16mm DOF.

If you shoot 2K scaled with the same 50mm S35mm lens, you'll get just that... a 50mm S35mm lens with S35mm DOF.

[edit: ignore my DOF comments]
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Nope. A 50mm lens remains 50mm, the difference between a 35mm lens and a 16mm lens is just the image area that the lens has to provide. So actually if you use a 50mm S35 lens and shoot 2K windowed you'll get exactly the same as a 50mm S16 lens with S16 DOF.
 
Its a little hard because the final specs have not been finalized yet.. so some stuff can change. Stuart is the man that will put this all to bed.
 
Muttondraw said:
Nope. A 50mm lens remains 50mm, the difference between a 35mm lens and a 16mm lens is just the image area that the lens has to provide. So actually if you use a 50mm S35 lens and shoot 2K windowed you'll get exactly the same as a 50mm S16 lens with S16 DOF.
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You're right, I really buggered up that post. The FOV of a 50mm lens windowed to S16 would be equivalent to the FOV of a 100mm lens at full S35.

Unless I'm just completely off today. :laugh:
 
Haakon said:
I still think "onboard" is quite misleading, however. How else are you going to record with the camera?
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Okay, onboard means through the REDCODE out to the REDFLASH or RED-DRIVE.

The other option is using the high-speed digital port to output to RED-RAID. This option will likely not be directly attached to the camera / rails / cages, hence not onboard
 
Brook Willard said:
You're right, I really buggered up that post. The FOV of a 50mm lens windowed to S16 would be equivalent to the FOV of a 100mm lens at full S35.

Unless I'm just completely off today. :laugh:
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Yup. Much better. And the DOF relates to image size, so if you crop an image you increase the DOF. May feel counter-intuitive but that is why you can't just stick a 35mm lens in front of a small format sensor to get reduced depth of field. You have to scale the image.

Martin

Amended bit: I Didn't quite mean that about the DOF. The actual DOF remains constant what I meant was that the effect is as if the DOF had increased. You will get a reduced depth of field as the focal length increases, but with a small format you will use a shorter lens for the same FOV so you will get you get greater DOF for any specified FOV.
 
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Muttondraw said:
Yup. Much better. And the DOF relates to image size, so if you crop an image you increase the DOF. May feel counter-intuative but that is why you can't just stick a 35mm lens in front of a small format sensor to get reduced depth of field. You have to scale the image.

Martin
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Of course, of course. I'm usually much more on top of these things :laugh:
 
Muttondraw said:
And the DOF relates to image size, so if you crop an image you increase the DOF. May feel counter-intuative but that is why you can't just stick a 35mm lens in front of a small format sensor to get reduced depth of field. You have to scale the image.

Martin
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Ooops. Didn't quite mean that about the DOF. The actual DOF remains constant what I meant was that the effect is as if the DOF had increased. You will get a reduced depth of field as the focal length increases, but with a small format you will use a shorter lens for the same FOV so you will get you get greater DOF for any specified FOV.

Martin
 
Brook Willard said:
Of course, of course. I'm usually much more on top of these things :laugh:
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I know. I got the impression that you knew what you wanted to say, it just came out wrong... :)
 
Rob Lohman said:
Okay, onboard means through the REDCODE out to the REDFLASH or RED-DRIVE.

The other option is using the high-speed digital port to output to RED-RAID. This option will likely not be directly attached to the camera / rails / cages, hence not onboard
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Lol, I love how "onboard" means "going out to a drive." Eesh! I think that should be reworked, especially considering the camera has its own onboard flash. Er, I mean on-onboard flash. :-p

How big is the RED-RAID, and is it something that will be effective in a portable setting or just a "studio" type setup?

Brook Willard said:
Terminology is killing us all.
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Amen to that!
 
Rob Lohman said:
Okay, onboard means through the REDCODE out to the REDFLASH or RED-DRIVE.
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Am I misunderstanding something? I seem to remember discussion of a 32GB or 64GB internal [in-body] flash drive.
 
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