C500: Shane Hurlbut going RED

AndreeOnline

AndreeOnline

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I'm sure some of you are familiar with DP Shane Hurlbut. He has been close to Canon for years and have been given early access to cameras like the 1Dc and C500. He was one of the early adopters of the 5D mkII in feature film. Shane has done many comparisons between many cameras. Among the popular ones are the C500 vs Alexa. Hurlbut liked the C500.

In a series of tweets recently he has stated that he is currently testing the RED Dragon. He now says it's "the best camera he's ever used, period."

He says it's "nice to not have all the hassle as with the C500" and that it is fresh with "a camera company that listens".

I am paraphrasing here a bit, but they are close quotes (check on twitter if you like). He will soon do a writeup on his blog—that will be interesting.

As someone replied on Twitter: this doesn't look too good for Canon come NAB. Shane might potentially have some insight, but if he is bailing now, what does that mean? Some frustration with Canon can be felt between the lines of Shane's tweets.

This does specifically concern the C500 and its continuation. I don't feel all of this is relevant to the C300 mkII, but it's interesting nonetheless. There's more to say here, but I'll leave it at that to get the ball rolling. =)
 
I have a Dragon myself and think its the best camera out there. That said, I am surprised at Shanes sudden interest in the camera. I'm curious to see how this unfolds.
 
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Interesting, but price should still be a consideration, and there's a pretty big price gap between the two, right?

What's annoying to me isn't that Canon's failing to make their cameras good enough, it just seems like they don't even want to bother trying to compete at the top-tier. Annoying for completely selfish reasons of course, because I like my c100 just fine and wouldn't be sinking $40k on a new camera+accessories anyway, but until Canon comes out with a powerhouse, clients are still going to be asking for "That RED camera" without respect to their actual project. Get the Canon name out there on high profile work and maybe we'll see a few more "RED or Canon camera" requirements
 
A lot of what Red has done and is doing makes sense. Interchangeable mounts, PL EF Leica M , upgradeable sensors, and the best file compression around . No separate recorders all done in camera.
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Shane Hurlbut does not have insight on future Canon products.
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Maybe not in the strictest sense, but I'm sure he is in a discussion/feedback position. And during those talks he probably gets a feeling for where things are going.

But I agree that he probably won't have a definitive spec list on upcoming cameras.
 
tjphoto said:
No separate recorders all done in camera.
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When 'it' has a "boot time", is ventilated with PC-fans, data is recorded to SSD and power comes from a brick attached with a cable… at some point it is no longer a camera but more a machine.

Not knocking it as an image producing device, but quite a lot of nimbleness is lost.
 
This is an excellent input. There's a difference in what types of cameras the Reds/Canons are. If you can work with a camera that resembles a PC block (features, movies) it's fine, but a small Canon camcorder is an entirely different type of camera to work with. I would never buy a RED simply because of the form factor, power, media, workflow, weight, and ergonomics of how it all works. I can and like working with it on a rental project, but not own as my own personal camcorder for everyday jobs.

I just see the Reds and a C300/500 are completely different cameras for different users/jobs. Not that one is better, just different.
 
I shot with the RED Dragon on my short film. I enjoyed the image but still prefer the image from the C300/C500. I have been eyeing a used C500 as a possible purchase coming up, since they are selling at a good price now.
 
I'm a member of Shane's inner circle and have been watching and reading his posts on this test. I'm very interested to see how it turns out, but right now he seems to be loving the camera. I agree that Canon is not doing nearly enough to keep up in any of their markets (low end/high end). I did just purchase the C100MII, but they could do so much at that price point for the camere and follow what others are doing in the same price point. They remind me of Apple. Two companies that used to innovate, now just follow and hold back.
 
Dragon and Canon are in completely different markets with regards both C500 & dragon. Shane can do what he wants but he is also tailoring his camera choice to his market. That may work for him but it doesn't work for me. Shane Hurlbut is not my thought leader in this case, but just another guy with a preference. So who cares?
 
Shane also chooses the camera based on the emotion of the film. He has a new feature he is working on. Perhaps the Red really is what the feature needs. These are all great cameras. The Red can do things the Canon can't and the Canon can look a way the ared can't. It depends on the look you are going for. Let's wait for his full review. But I do agree, Canon needs to seriously step up an release something major. They are way behind.
 
AndreeOnline said:
When 'it' has a "boot time", is ventilated with PC-fans, data is recorded to SSD and power comes from a brick attached with a cable… at some point it is no longer a camera but more a machine.

Not knocking it as an image producing device, but quite a lot of nimbleness is lost.
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I love my Canon's a great deal, but of all the things you speak of only one is accurate(data being recorded to an SSD) which is what every other manufacturer SHOULD have been doing the second SSD manufacturing costs came down. They are more then robust enough for field/professional use and have the sort of throughput we need for 10-12bit imaging. RED got it right a long time ago and the proof is in the image quality. Having a fair amount of experience shooting with the scarlet/epic I can say the "pc-fans" are no more an issue then any other camera capable of high speed. If your not shooting +60fps, its about equal with the canon variants. The power requirements are also inline with other cameras with similar capabilities. About the only thing I like with my canon more then the RED is the battery size/life, built in ND's and cost to own.

I don't find myself any less "nimble" running around with an epic compared to my c100(although the built in ND makes changing lenses easier). I'm usually running the RED with a v-mount which makes the setup feel really good in the hand(no more cumbersome then my cinema camera). As far as boot times, once again their pretty damn close. With 2 64GB cards in my Canon it takes anywhere from 10-15 seconds before its fully initialized and ready to start recording(epic being 13 seconds).


As far as Shane is concerned, I've seen a little bit of his work and have not been impressed. I applaud his accomplishments and bravery for trying new systems, but I find the majority of his work to be a bit tacky and distasteful. I only assume since he was EXTREMELY vocal about his usage of DSLR's in his films, that those who also use them feel a connection to him. There are MANY other cinematographers with MUCH greater talent that don't need sell their soul for corporate sponsorships and kickbacks. Let's hear what gear Tom Stern, Janus Kaminski, Roger Deakins or Dante Spinotti prefer to use :) Now THAT would be some information worth listening too!
 
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Edry said:
c100 10-15 seconds to boot? mine is pretty much instant.
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maybe your screen turns on instantly, but the camera itself is not able to record instantly. I have 2 c100's equipped with dpaf and consulted with a few dealers as well as CPS and was told this is standard operation for all their cinema cameras(with the exception of the 1DC).
 
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I know its not ready to record right away but def not 15 seconds. Let me know if you want to make a short iphone vid to prove it.
 
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