C500: Shane Hurlbut going RED
- Thread starter AndreeOnline
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indiawilds
Veteran
I am surprised to hear that Shane is jumping ships. C500 is a pretty good camera and I thought he was in love with it. He was pretty vocal about his preference for Canon. He was the one who had said 1Dc is better than the RED Epic. I had never accused him to be on the payrolls of Canon, despite he being vocal with his support, nor will I accuse him to be on the payroll of RED just because he shifted to using Dragon. I guess he may want to shoot in RED Dragon for one of his films for some reason. The director may also have a preference and wanted the RED Dragon. We don't know.
If a feature film producer wants me to shoot with RED Epic or dragon, and ready for the costs, I will readily hire and shoot. Owning it in my market doesn't make sense, as rental rates has hit rock bottom. My broadcast clients specifically ask me to shoot with C300 and am fine to do that. I own C300 because of the number of days I shoot with it and also because of its low light and other performance. Budget is never enough to cover all the high tech gear accessories apart from the cameras that we aspire to own. So it doesn't matter if one Hollywood ASC shifts his preferences.
As far as boot up and recording times are concerned, I agree that it should have been much faster. DSLRs can instantly start recording. Wish Canon can improve the boot times in the C300 and the next version of it. I have missed wildlife shots because the C300 can't record immediately. One can say that you should always keep the camera on. However, I often go for extended periods of time before charging and don't want all my batteries to be down. I have V mount batteries, but have never used it to power my C300 as I just want my gear to be as light. This is fine for narratives but a challenge for documentaries and run-n-gun work.
If a feature film producer wants me to shoot with RED Epic or dragon, and ready for the costs, I will readily hire and shoot. Owning it in my market doesn't make sense, as rental rates has hit rock bottom. My broadcast clients specifically ask me to shoot with C300 and am fine to do that. I own C300 because of the number of days I shoot with it and also because of its low light and other performance. Budget is never enough to cover all the high tech gear accessories apart from the cameras that we aspire to own. So it doesn't matter if one Hollywood ASC shifts his preferences.
As far as boot up and recording times are concerned, I agree that it should have been much faster. DSLRs can instantly start recording. Wish Canon can improve the boot times in the C300 and the next version of it. I have missed wildlife shots because the C300 can't record immediately. One can say that you should always keep the camera on. However, I often go for extended periods of time before charging and don't want all my batteries to be down. I have V mount batteries, but have never used it to power my C300 as I just want my gear to be as light. This is fine for narratives but a challenge for documentaries and run-n-gun work.
Please do, we all like to see that
Ok here it is, The video is 8 seconds long but notice how the red circle shows up around 6 seconds mark (download the video and put it in your NLE check frame by frame if you dont believe me). Not to mention I fumbled a little at the beginning because I was recording with the other hand, So if you discount that out it could be even shorter time. With that said, id say the c100 takes around 5-6s to boot not 15.
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From the looks of your video you have 1 card in, may I ask the size? Try putting two memory cards in of a sufficient size(ie 2x32GB cards). Also try adding on a lens and a mic, these are are all things that effect boot times
Nice try though
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Dual record mode also increases the boot time over having two cards in the camera and having it on single card record mode.
im not gonna go crazy on this you either believe it or not.. I feel like I've already proved my point, and i feel like no matter what i do will change your mind. There is always going to be some sort of variation depending on how you have the camera setup or how you use the camera. Thats why I said "MINE is almost instant". Maybe is the way I use it, but I always get around the same boot speeds no matter what. The camera was in my bag I'm not going to rig it up just to keep going on about this since its very insignificant. Normally you dont dual record on the epic so were comparing apple to oranges here. I dont know why someone even said the boot times are the same since there are so many variables to take into account. : )
Ps. I agree on your feelings about shane, I've felt the same way but for some weird reason I felt like I wasn't allow it to say it.
Ps. I agree on your feelings about shane, I've felt the same way but for some weird reason I felt like I wasn't allow it to say it.
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Bottom line is we live in an ever changing market. With new sensors being released all the time, it would be silly to sit on one sensor and sing it's praises without trying new ones as they come on the market would it not?
TubEfingers
Well-known member
There are MANY other cinematographers with MUCH greater talent that don't need sell their soul for corporate sponsorships and kickbacks.Let's hear what gear Tom Stern, Janus Kaminski, Roger Deakins or Dante Spinotti prefer to use
Very good point (if slightly cynical
) Leogrey
traviswears
Well-known member
From the looks of your video you have 1 card in, may I ask the size? Try putting two memory cards in of a sufficient size(ie 2x32GB cards). Also try adding on a lens and a mic, these are are all things that effect boot times
Why dual-record? I rarely do. The batteries on these Canon cameras last forever, so I leave mine on all day during any shoot (except when changing lenses). Had my C100 since they were released and have never missed a shot due to the booting time. Not sure what point you're trying to make, besides trying to prove Edry wrong? Petty argument IMO.
traviswears
Well-known member
deltoidjohn
Veteran
I've barely gotten my head around the idea that I'll need to upgrade to 4K sometime soon, let alone thought about 6K!
No doubt the Epic Dragon is an amazing camera but it's an entirely different beast to the C500/C300. Each has their advantages and challenges, so it depends on the users requirements. For my work, I could never imagine using a RED (not even a scarlet, at competitive prices to the cameras I am using). There's just too much data to deal with efficiently in my workflow and too much hassle when shooting. If I was working solely as a DP with an assistant, on controlled shoots, it might be a different story.
I do agree that Canon is lagging behind the pack though, especially against Sony. The biggest thing that made the C300 a hit in many markets was the broadcast-spec codec. Now Sony have an S35 camera that does this, and a whole lot more, at lower price. If Canon don't respond soon they may find a lot of people (and networks) jumping ship.
No doubt the Epic Dragon is an amazing camera but it's an entirely different beast to the C500/C300. Each has their advantages and challenges, so it depends on the users requirements. For my work, I could never imagine using a RED (not even a scarlet, at competitive prices to the cameras I am using). There's just too much data to deal with efficiently in my workflow and too much hassle when shooting. If I was working solely as a DP with an assistant, on controlled shoots, it might be a different story.
I do agree that Canon is lagging behind the pack though, especially against Sony. The biggest thing that made the C300 a hit in many markets was the broadcast-spec codec. Now Sony have an S35 camera that does this, and a whole lot more, at lower price. If Canon don't respond soon they may find a lot of people (and networks) jumping ship.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
It's a known fact that on somewhat rare occasions memory cards will fail and all the data will be lost. Over the course of a career, there is probably a pretty high likelihood of either having a memory card failure or loosing a memory card before it is captured. Dual-record mode is insurance for when that event may eventually happen. It may be worth it to a lot of people to take that risk and only record on one card rather than spend an extra minute or two per shoot putting in and later formatting the second card, but others would prefer not to risk losing a day's footage. I generally prefer not to take that risk, especially on non-repeatable events such as weddings.
If we throw some theoretical time and financial numbers out there, let's say you spend 1.5 extra minutes per shoot using dual record mode, and you have 75 shoots per year where you need to spend that 1.5 minutes, so about two hours per year. Over a 30 year career, that would be 60 hours. Let's say you make $50 per hour, so in terms of time to money, that would be $3000. Now let's say you're likely to have a memory card failure or loose a memory card once in the course of 30 years, and say you charge $4000 for weddings, and would have to refund the client if you loose the footage. So you'd loose $3000 in time from using dual record, but would loose even more, $4000, if you have to refund the client because you didn't use dual-record, on top of the bad reputation, feeling bad about it, etc., that you'd get from failing on a job.
I leave my camera on all the time too even during lens changes. Three stock Canon batteries lasts 15 hours.
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indiawilds
Veteran
When the camera is on and you change lenses, there are more chances of dust accumulation on the sensor.
Double slot recording gives immediate backup. One mess up and you lose your reputation for life. So better to record to both the cards for all critical stuff.
Double slot recording gives immediate backup. One mess up and you lose your reputation for life. So better to record to both the cards for all critical stuff.
Doug_EX
Well-known member
Couldn't agree more.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Are you suggesting that when the camera is on the electrical charge attracts more dust during a lens change than when the camera is off? Regardless, I do it all the time and the glass in front of the sensor (let's remember, the sensor does have a piece of glass covering it on the C100, so your sensor will not actually get dust directly on it) on my C100 is quite clean. If some dust did get in, I could likely use a blower to easily take care of it. If it got dirty with elements that a blower couldn't take care of, or a brush, and I didn't want to use a cloth, liquid, etc., I could pay to send it to Canon for a professional cleaning, and it would still be worth it to me to have the ability to change lenses while recording. I used to always turn off the camera for lens swaps until I read on DVXuser that people were doing hot swaps without problems, so then I started hot swapping and it has been such a godsend to speeding things up on set.
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I never said anything about enabling "dual recording". All I simply said was add 2 average sized cards(32GB or greater), a lens and a mic. This to me would be considered as a BASE / mandatory configuration for the c100. I never shoot with dual record as I am almost always shooting externally.
But by what you are saying, is that you regularly use your camera without a lens, mic and an empty SD slot? In your video you don't even show what size card is in your camera. You may think what ever you like, but you have proved absolutely nothing. MANY people(other then yourself of course) have complained about the boot times of the cinema cameras. You must just be the only super special canon professional lucky enough to get his hands on the only c100 not effected by the problem, makes sense since you are using it without a lens, 2 cards and sound.
If you read my post you would see all I was referring to was the boot times of the cameras being near identical. I happen to know and work with at least a dozen other c100 shooters across the states that have experienced the same behavior. After my first shoot with the camera I took it upon myself to do some digging. The usual googling lead to calling a few rental house technicians and that eventually left me speaking with a cps rep. Everyone said the same thing, it was just normal operation of their entire cinema line.
The volume of misinformation out there is astounding, and from time to time we need to do our part to stop false information from being spread to other potential readers.
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Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I read somewhere that the C100 Mark II, with the faster processor, boots quicker than the Mark I.
Let's not be too judgmental of his film-making style; it might be an artistic choice on his end. The first few minutes of 2001: A Space Odyssey were filmed without a lens, without film stock (i.e., memory cards), and without sound (other than music), and it has one of the greatest openings in movie history.
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I do assume the mk ii has a faster boot with its upgraded processors, curious if any owners could post with their experience that would be great.
jameshealey
Active member
My C100 mk2 boots up and is ready to record in less than 10 seconds. I'd say that's fast enough. and it is faster than the mk1 I owned before that
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Okay, yes, but do you film with or without a lens, microphone, and memory cards?