F55: Sensors and Image Quality (F5/F55 vs F23 vs Codex ActionCam vs HPX3700)

[BatVal]

Hey Everyone!

I’m new to the forums but I’ve been reading threads for the last year or two and studying filmmaking technology. I am looking to direct my first short film and set up my own creative film studio. I was hoping I could get some advise as I know a little bit but I don’t have too much hands on experience with these sensors, especially when comparing some of them to each other. There’s very little info on some of these sensors and exactly how they’re made as well the extent of their image quality and range of the color gamuts for each compared to each other, specifically the Codex Action Cam.

I’m deciding between a Sony F55, Sony F23, HPX3700 or Codex ActionCam for my next 5-10 years of filmmaking. I have a strong strong strong preference towards CCD sensors (single or 3ccd) either way over cmos.

I will only ever deliver in 1080P max HD for online content but I’m partial to 10 bit 444 or 12 bit color. The sony F23 and Digital Bolex are my Absolutely favorites when it comes to color and IQ in digital imagery that I’ve ever seen. Completely my style. I love 50’s and 60’s technicolor films and the digital bolex and sony f23 to me cant be touched in that regard. Even the Sony F55 with 16 bit raw doesn’t compare to the color found in CCDs in my opinion. I mean I’m delivering online at 1080P, I’m not sure if it would matter at my level. I don’t feel I need more than he or 2K max. I m also trying to steer away from the digitally lean look and more towards a film look with deep depth of field and color ala the 3 strip technicolor films of past.

Some context and my current gear so far:

Panasonic HPX3100
Canon EJ T1.5 15mm DigiPrime Broadcast HD Prime Cine lens
Canon EJ T1.5 6mm DigiPrime Broadcast HD Prime Cine lens
Fujinon A22x12.5 Super Tele 12.5mm-550mm + B3 to B4 mount adaptor (w/0.5 stop of light loss)
Fujinon HAF16B-10 T1.5 CF16” 16mm HD Cine Prime lens
Abakus Sony B4 to PL mount Super 16mm Adaptor for PMW F5/F55 (for 2K Center Scan Mode) (less than 0.5 T stop light loss)
Codex Action Cam camera head ( I still would need the body/recorder for this not to be useless)
Modula HD Cam with B4 to c mount adaptors (with optical correction for b4 lenses adapted to the modula)
Wollensak 5.3mm f/1.5 16mm C-mount vintage lens
Cinedeck EX recorder
Cinedeck RX Broadcast Recorder

Essentially I’m trying to decide between a Sony F23 vs a codex actioncam (I mean one is heaviesh but can really support all my b4 lenses properly and can easily give me the 444 HD uncompressed I’m seeking with pairing it with a cinedeck ex, it would come with the IF box so dual Sdi would be possible) vs the minuscule nature of the codex action cam also offering me 444 or 12 bit raw but off of a 2/3’ kodak ccd on semi-conductor.

Thing is, does the kodak sensor in the codex action cam realistically compete with the sony f23? I know the f23 has a wide color gamut but is that color gamut wider than what a digital bolex, codex action cam 12 bit raw or even an hpx3700 with p10log provide?

I can get a codex actioncam prob from a colleague I know for $4000 - $5000 (benefits are 2/3’ kodak ccd, 444 or 12 bit raw with supposedly higher resolution than any 3ccd camera and 11-13.5 stop dynamic range) I already have a remote head but I would have two if I bought this one with the control/record unit. Easy of travel filmmaking, every day use and camera movement as it its in palm of my hand.
Episode 1 of Anthony Bourdain parts unknown season 5 was shot on sinacam actioncam ie the whole South Korea episode and I absolutely loved the look. Colors and grit def my style. That was sinacam though with 16 bit processing and no raw only 422. The codex actioncam is 444 or 12 bit raw but with only 14 bit processing and that one was used to shoot the film Social Suicide which I also loved the look of.

I could get a sony F23 with IF box for $4,000-$5,000 and I love films like Speed Racer, kill the Irishman, the father of invention, how I met your mother, and dexter season 3 that this thing has been used for. Best colors I’ve Evers seen so does any camera like even the hpx3700 or codex actioncam even come close to this?

How similar is the kodak cc’d in the actioncam to the digital bolex color wise aside from the fact that one is super 16/2K size sensor and the other is only 2/3’? The 2/3’ in the actioncam actually has about a 12mm diagonal for the sensor so the abakus adaptor for b4 lenses to pl mount for f5/f55 2K center scan mod I own should work for the codex actioncam once I pair it with a pl to c mount adaptor and it would naturally work to mount b4 lenses onto a digital bolex as well.

I could get an HPX3700 for under $3000 but does that even begin to compare color and sensor wise to the wide gamut of the sony f23 or kodak sensor of the codex action cam or not even close?

Thank you again for the advise as it would be super helpful. It is sometimes hard to just these sensors against each other when little is shown to compare.

 

[Guest]

Hey Everyone!

I’m new to the forums but I’ve been reading threads for the last year or two and studying filmmaking technology. I am looking to direct my first short film and set up my own creative film studio. I was hoping I could get some advise as I know a little bit but I don’t have too much hands on experience with these sensors, especially when comparing some of them to each other. There’s very little info on some of these sensors and exactly how they’re made as well the extent of their image quality and range of the color gamuts for each compared to each other, specifically the Codex Action Cam.

I’m deciding between a Sony F55, Sony F23, HPX3700 or Codex ActionCam for my next 5-10 years of filmmaking. I have a strong strong strong preference towards CCD sensors (single or 3ccd) either way over cmos.

I will only ever deliver in 1080P max HD for online content but I’m partial to 10 bit 444 or 12 bit color. The sony F23 and Digital Bolex are my Absolutely favorites when it comes to color and IQ in digital imagery that I’ve ever seen. Completely my style. I love 50’s and 60’s technicolor films and the digital bolex and sony f23 to me cant be touched in that regard. Even the Sony F55 with 16 bit raw doesn’t compare to the color found in CCDs in my opinion. I mean I’m delivering online at 1080P, I’m not sure if it would matter at my level. I don’t feel I need more than he or 2K max. I m also trying to steer away from the digitally lean look and more towards a film look with deep depth of field and color ala the 3 strip technicolor films of past.

Some context and my current gear so far:

Panasonic HPX3100
Canon EJ T1.5 15mm DigiPrime Broadcast HD Prime Cine lens
Canon EJ T1.5 6mm DigiPrime Broadcast HD Prime Cine lens
Fujinon A22x12.5 Super Tele 12.5mm-550mm + B3 to B4 mount adaptor (w/0.5 stop of light loss)
Fujinon HAF16B-10 T1.5 CF16” 16mm HD Cine Prime lens
Abakus Sony B4 to PL mount Super 16mm Adaptor for PMW F5/F55 (for 2K Center Scan Mode) (less than 0.5 T stop light loss)
Codex Action Cam camera head ( I still would need the body/recorder for this not to be useless)
Modula HD Cam with B4 to c mount adaptors (with optical correction for b4 lenses adapted to the modula)
Wollensak 5.3mm f/1.5 16mm C-mount vintage lens
Cinedeck EX recorder
Cinedeck RX Broadcast Recorder

Essentially I’m trying to decide between a Sony F23 vs a codex actioncam (I mean one is heaviesh but can really support all my b4 lenses properly and can easily give me the 444 HD uncompressed I’m seeking with pairing it with a cinedeck ex, it would come with the IF box so dual Sdi would be possible) vs the minuscule nature of the codex action cam also offering me 444 or 12 bit raw but off of a 2/3’ kodak ccd on semi-conductor.

Thing is, does the kodak sensor in the codex action cam realistically compete with the sony f23? I know the f23 has a wide color gamut but is that color gamut wider than what a digital bolex, codex action cam 12 bit raw or even an hpx3700 with p10log provide?

I can get a codex actioncam prob from a colleague I know for $4000 - $5000 (benefits are 2/3’ kodak ccd, 444 or 12 bit raw with supposedly higher resolution than any 3ccd camera and 11-13.5 stop dynamic range) I already have a remote head but I would have two if I bought this one with the control/record unit. Easy of travel filmmaking, every day use and camera movement as it its in palm of my hand.
Episode 1 of Anthony Bourdain parts unknown season 5 was shot on sinacam actioncam ie the whole South Korea episode and I absolutely loved the look. Colors and grit def my style. That was sinacam though with 16 bit processing and no raw only 422. The codex actioncam is 444 or 12 bit raw but with only 14 bit processing and that one was used to shoot the film Social Suicide which I also loved the look of.

I could get a sony F23 with IF box for $4,000-$5,000 and I love films like Speed Racer, kill the Irishman, the father of invention, how I met your mother, and dexter season 3 that this thing has been used for. Best colors I’ve Evers seen so does any camera like even the hpx3700 or codex actioncam even come close to this?

How similar is the kodak cc’d in the actioncam to the digital bolex color wise aside from the fact that one is super 16/2K size sensor and the other is only 2/3’? The 2/3’ in the actioncam actually has about a 12mm diagonal for the sensor so the abakus adaptor for b4 lenses to pl mount for f5/f55 2K center scan mod I own should work for the codex actioncam once I pair it with a pl to c mount adaptor and it would naturally work to mount b4 lenses onto a digital bolex as well.

I could get an HPX3700 for under $3000 but does that even begin to compare color and sensor wise to the wide gamut of the sony f23 or kodak sensor of the codex action cam or not even close?

Thank you again for the advise as it would be super helpful. It is sometimes hard to just these sensors against each other when little is shown to compare.

For film making, no contest! F55 all the way. But for your own art, then choose what you want. F55 is a good camera, that very recently fell out of favor with ENG people, so they are currently cheap on Ebay. I saw two go for around $4K last week.

At this point, F23, and to some degree, F35 are over priced. The HPX3700 is well outdated, and cannot compare in image quality. However, if you like the old video aesthetic, the F23 and 3700 are nice for replicating all sort of vintage video looks.

 

[BatVal]

Thank you very much for the reply James. I’ve learned so much from your past replies over the last two years. I’m curious because you mention that for filmmaking the F55 is solid.i know it’s still used a lot in various series ie Marco Polo etc and I can see why as it does suit a certain modern look and has some great codecs/ 16bit raw in and of itself is a stand out feature even today i feel, versatility and global shutter, but what in your opinion sets it apart for narrative cinema work that you personally love about it. What tends to attract you to the tech you cherish and use most often, I agree with you that the f23 and f35 are over priced and to a degree at this point in modern technology the f23 has almost a sort of flat super colored sitcom tv type look that i know def dates itself compared to today’s high resolution offerings appealing to a diff type of aesthetic. It’s interesting cause to me the new stuff looks very clean and when I’ve focused group footage with people, they almost always prefer the modern looks to the f23 aesthetic which they feel is too colorful and distracting. To a degree the types of content we watch during eras after a while naturally outdate older technology to where some audiences no longer want to watch that vintage type look so that could be a minus to the f23/f35 especially with what companies like Arri is doing with their tech, red etc. they seem to have the best of both worlds ie the color science and the modern look. What are some of the best examples you’ve personally seen of what the f55 can do and what are your top reasons you’d for example at the end of the day take it over an f23 or f35?

 

[Donny 123]

Thank you very much for the reply James. I’ve learned so much from your past replies over the last two years. I’m curious because you mention that for filmmaking the F55 is solid.i know it’s still used a lot in various series ie Marco Polo etc and I can see why as it does suit a certain modern look and has some great codecs/ 16bit raw in and of itself is a stand out feature even today i feel, versatility and global shutter, but what in your opinion sets it apart for narrative cinema work that you personally love about it. What tends to attract you to the tech you cherish and use most often, I agree with you that the f23 and f35 are over priced and to a degree at this point in modern technology the f23 has almost a sort of flat super colored sitcom tv type look that i know def dates itself compared to today’s high resolution offerings appealing to a diff type of aesthetic. It’s interesting cause to me the new stuff looks very clean and when I’ve focused group footage with people, they almost always prefer the modern looks to the f23 aesthetic which they feel is too colorful and distracting. To a degree the types of content we watch during eras after a while naturally outdate older technology to where some audiences no longer want to watch that vintage type look so that could be a minus to the f23/f35 especially with what companies like Arri is doing with their tech, red etc. they seem to have the best of both worlds ie the color science and the modern look. What are some of the best examples you’ve personally seen of what the f55 can do and what are your top reasons you’d for example at the end of the day take it over an f23 or f35?

If your time scale is 5-10years , why buy already very out dated camera,s , the sensor on an fx6 is way better than a f55 , and of course it should be, its 15 years newer ..let alone parts, media cards/ readers and maintenance .. don't drink the film school hipster Kool aid .. great cameras in their day but nuts to buy now with a 5-10year plan .. when way better cameras are incredibly cheap new .. never has there ever been a better time for a film maker like you, to buy a new camera thats cheap and has amazing features / sensor , there is literally not a bad camera being made new now .. take your pick ..its very low on the list of whats going to make your films standout over others ..

 

[BatVal]

Thank you Donny. I will take a look at the new stuff as well. And to your point then I can invest the extra money into good Audio capture for sound and production value. I’m starting to realize how important good sound and mixing is almost moreso than the visuals in setting a project apart.

 

[Guest]

Thank you very much for the reply James. I’ve learned so much from your past replies over the last two years. I’m curious because you mention that for filmmaking the F55 is solid.i know it’s still used a lot in various series ie Marco Polo etc and I can see why as it does suit a certain modern look and has some great codecs/ 16bit raw in and of itself is a stand out feature even today i feel, versatility and global shutter, but what in your opinion sets it apart for narrative cinema work that you personally love about it. What tends to attract you to the tech you cherish and use most often, I agree with you that the f23 and f35 are over priced and to a degree at this point in modern technology the f23 has almost a sort of flat super colored sitcom tv type look that i know def dates itself compared to today’s high resolution offerings appealing to a diff type of aesthetic. It’s interesting cause to me the new stuff looks very clean and when I’ve focused group footage with people, they almost always prefer the modern looks to the f23 aesthetic which they feel is too colorful and distracting. To a degree the types of content we watch during eras after a while naturally outdate older technology to where some audiences no longer want to watch that vintage type look so that could be a minus to the f23/f35 especially with what companies like Arri is doing with their tech, red etc. they seem to have the best of both worlds ie the color science and the modern look. What are some of the best examples you’ve personally seen of what the f55 can do and what are your top reasons you’d for example at the end of the day take it over an f23 or f35?

The nice thing about the F55 and F35, is that they are really good at colour. The F55 may not have the same mojo, but you can grade it to look superb. The F55 is easier to work with too. really good at battery life, has internal ND, audio is simple, interchangeable lens mounts. And the F55, in my experience has more DR than the F35. It is difficult to replace the F35's look. It has a very good base, and it is very rare, so I understand that it retains value, but if you learn to grade, and shoot raw, the F55 can be better. It can be worse too. It has a more video look straight out of camera, and it requires grading to get that filmic mojo. But, something about the colour filters in the F55 are great.

 

[Guest]

If your time scale is 5-10years , why buy already very out dated camera,s , the sensor on an fx6 is way better than a f55 , and of course it should be, its 15 years newer ..let alone parts, media cards/ readers and maintenance .. don't drink the film school hipster Kool aid .. great cameras in their day but nuts to buy now with a 5-10year plan .. when way better cameras are incredibly cheap new .. never has there ever been a better time for a film maker like you, to buy a new camera thats cheap and has amazing features / sensor , there is literally not a bad camera being made new now .. take your pick ..its very low on the list of whats going to make your films standout over others ..

Also true. The A7s3 and Fx6 are fantastic. Something about the F55 feels a little more refined. But the Fx6 is certainly more than capable, and the low light is amazing.

 

[Guest]

Hey Everyone!

I’m new to the forums but I’ve been reading threads for the last year or two and studying filmmaking technology. I am looking to direct my first short film and set up my own creative film studio. I was hoping I could get some advise as I know a little bit but I don’t have too much hands on experience with these sensors, especially when comparing some of them to each other. There’s very little info on some of these sensors and exactly how they’re made as well the extent of their image quality and range of the color gamuts for each compared to each other, specifically the Codex Action Cam.

I’m deciding between a Sony F55, Sony F23, HPX3700 or Codex ActionCam for my next 5-10 years of filmmaking. I have a strong strong strong preference towards CCD sensors (single or 3ccd) either way over cmos.

I will only ever deliver in 1080P max HD for online content but I’m partial to 10 bit 444 or 12 bit color. The sony F23 and Digital Bolex are my Absolutely favorites when it comes to color and IQ in digital imagery that I’ve ever seen. Completely my style. I love 50’s and 60’s technicolor films and the digital bolex and sony f23 to me cant be touched in that regard. Even the Sony F55 with 16 bit raw doesn’t compare to the color found in CCDs in my opinion. I mean I’m delivering online at 1080P, I’m not sure if it would matter at my level. I don’t feel I need more than he or 2K max. I m also trying to steer away from the digitally lean look and more towards a film look with deep depth of field and color ala the 3 strip technicolor films of past.

Some context and my current gear so far:

Panasonic HPX3100
Canon EJ T1.5 15mm DigiPrime Broadcast HD Prime Cine lens
Canon EJ T1.5 6mm DigiPrime Broadcast HD Prime Cine lens
Fujinon A22x12.5 Super Tele 12.5mm-550mm + B3 to B4 mount adaptor (w/0.5 stop of light loss)
Fujinon HAF16B-10 T1.5 CF16” 16mm HD Cine Prime lens
Abakus Sony B4 to PL mount Super 16mm Adaptor for PMW F5/F55 (for 2K Center Scan Mode) (less than 0.5 T stop light loss)
Codex Action Cam camera head ( I still would need the body/recorder for this not to be useless)
Modula HD Cam with B4 to c mount adaptors (with optical correction for b4 lenses adapted to the modula)
Wollensak 5.3mm f/1.5 16mm C-mount vintage lens
Cinedeck EX recorder
Cinedeck RX Broadcast Recorder

Essentially I’m trying to decide between a Sony F23 vs a codex actioncam (I mean one is heaviesh but can really support all my b4 lenses properly and can easily give me the 444 HD uncompressed I’m seeking with pairing it with a cinedeck ex, it would come with the IF box so dual Sdi would be possible) vs the minuscule nature of the codex action cam also offering me 444 or 12 bit raw but off of a 2/3’ kodak ccd on semi-conductor.

Thing is, does the kodak sensor in the codex action cam realistically compete with the sony f23? I know the f23 has a wide color gamut but is that color gamut wider than what a digital bolex, codex action cam 12 bit raw or even an hpx3700 with p10log provide?

I can get a codex actioncam prob from a colleague I know for $4000 - $5000 (benefits are 2/3’ kodak ccd, 444 or 12 bit raw with supposedly higher resolution than any 3ccd camera and 11-13.5 stop dynamic range) I already have a remote head but I would have two if I bought this one with the control/record unit. Easy of travel filmmaking, every day use and camera movement as it its in palm of my hand.
Episode 1 of Anthony Bourdain parts unknown season 5 was shot on sinacam actioncam ie the whole South Korea episode and I absolutely loved the look. Colors and grit def my style. That was sinacam though with 16 bit processing and no raw only 422. The codex actioncam is 444 or 12 bit raw but with only 14 bit processing and that one was used to shoot the film Social Suicide which I also loved the look of.

I could get a sony F23 with IF box for $4,000-$5,000 and I love films like Speed Racer, kill the Irishman, the father of invention, how I met your mother, and dexter season 3 that this thing has been used for. Best colors I’ve Evers seen so does any camera like even the hpx3700 or codex actioncam even come close to this?

How similar is the kodak cc’d in the actioncam to the digital bolex color wise aside from the fact that one is super 16/2K size sensor and the other is only 2/3’? The 2/3’ in the actioncam actually has about a 12mm diagonal for the sensor so the abakus adaptor for b4 lenses to pl mount for f5/f55 2K center scan mod I own should work for the codex actioncam once I pair it with a pl to c mount adaptor and it would naturally work to mount b4 lenses onto a digital bolex as well.

I could get an HPX3700 for under $3000 but does that even begin to compare color and sensor wise to the wide gamut of the sony f23 or kodak sensor of the codex action cam or not even close?

Thank you again for the advise as it would be super helpful. It is sometimes hard to just these sensors against each other when little is shown to compare.

Just reading again, and I must say, I like your gear list. kind of jealous.


F23 certainly has a look. And having 22x zooms have got to be fun.

 

[Donny 123]

Also true. The A7s3 and Fx6 are fantastic. Something about the F55 feels a little more refined. But the Fx6 is certainly more than capable, and the low light is amazing.

I used the f55 a fair bit and had an f5.. definitely a great camera back in the day , but for just a bit more than a cheap 2nd hand f55 , I feel something like an fx6 with variable ND, FF , S Cinetone and basically just a newer sensor is a better bet for someone with a 5-10 year plan.. actually I would recommend a second hand fx9 as the best idea even over a new fx6... this really is a very good all round camera for the price ..

 

[DLD]

I'd look at a used Red. No overwhelming preference, just that it might have that Digital Bolex flavor at 4K. Not sure if it lasts 5-10 years but, IMO, it's better to get higher end gear that has a few, but not too many, miles on it rather than a lower priced consumer quality stuff.

That said, electronics performance jumps from generation to generation instead of advancing in a straight line. It may flat line for a few years, then explodes with extra features and classic gear is pretty much left for a real enthusiast.

PS. Side note, last week I saw a guy driving around the neighborhood in a convertible Cadillac Eldorado from the early 1970's. All black too. How old is that car? My spell checker doesn't even know what an Eldorado is.

 

[BatVal]

That 22x zoom was a revelation to me. It was a tv boxed lens but the box container shell has been removed so I have access to the focus rings, etc but the thing is heavy. I took a bit of a risk cause i couldn't afford the abakus adaptor it needed, luckily i found the adaptor i now have from a reasearch lab and it is essntially the same as the abackus if not better so it worked out. I also knew that sometimes SD lenses don't fair well on HD sensors but i also figured tv broadcast boxed lenses have better optics than consumer SD took the risk to get the lens. I was surprised by it though cause all my other glass (the canon's have great color but them and my fujinon 16 mm are both super sharp, almost too sharp combined with the 3100's 1080P 3chip sensor at 59 DB signal to noise ratio but the 22x zoom Fujinon by comparison because it's an SD tv box lens so the optics soften the sharpness of the sensor just a tad and the image and color rendition is just different - it makes me feel like it sees what I see with my eyes and when using it i feel almost like there's no lens in front of the camera. It is def going to be my 1st lens choice for my narrative work and scenes that need a "real world - realistic aesthetic" but I don't have the 15mm rod support 401-89B chorizel for the hpx3100 to support it properly (still looking). This is one benefit of the F23 ie the extra stabilized and reinforced B4 mount they have plus the ability to take arri film camera accessories plus the 15mm rod support would come with it. funny thing also is that as a filmmaker I'm a fantasy (visual atmosphere) narrative storyteller ie Tim Burton, Wes Anderson, and so on. My genre is fantasy and almost comic booky type myth. I love extreme color cause it helps me place my story in fantasy world aesthetic cause a lot of my story's are supposed to be fantasy myths, etc. dealing with archeypes think more like john ford simple type narratives with broad scope setting. So essentially I'm now looking for my "fantasy world aesthetic" camera. I once heard the cinematography describe the F23 they used for Dexter Season 3 as having an almost comic booky Chronenberg/Scorcese type of look which on that show I can see what they did with it. Imagine their sets and lighting and lenses, etc were all pro though and they know what they're doing to get the best image they can.

 

[BatVal]

Good to know about the fx9. I'll have to check it out. Also to your point about the next 5-10 yrs with everything trending towards full frame and larger type sensors vs 2/3' 3ccd etc and so on. If i want my lenses I already have to still be useable it might be better if instead of a camera I get one of those expensive adaptors from a couple years ago that would optically correct my lenses to adapt them to a larger sensor like a super 35mm or full frame sensor, and then I could rent a camera body till I pay off the adaptor cost. But the adaptor would future proof my lenses to a degree and allow me to use them on a larger sensor which so man cameras today and prob in the future are trending too. Right now I can only adapt and optically correct my lenses for the F55 center mode but I'm not sure if that is limited or if it still has all the cameras usuall feathers frame rates, raw, etc but in the hd/2k super 16 cropped sensor mode the F55 has. I'm def checking out the fx9 now to see more info about it, I had never heard of it before. I mean I know something like an Ursa Broadcast has a b4 mount with optical correction but that look isn't really for me and there's also the Varicam HS but ultimately to your point it might be better to get the b4 optically adaptor for full frame cameras so I can get into using those sensors with my glass.

 

[BatVal]

Those older cars though when they fix them up on those tv shows and modernize them with all the bells and whistles espeicllay those muscle cars woowee theyre fire and look good when restored.

 

[scorsesefan]

I like that you're not enthralled by the latest and greatest tech but I have to agree with Donny that an FX6 or IMO a used FS7 might be best given that the cameras you mentioned are getting a bit long in the tooth. Video, unlike audio and lighting gear needs to be updated fairly regularly as the technology/DR/image quality seems to improve a great deal from generation to generation. BTW I (and my partner) were one of the beta tester for the D16 and it had a great look/color, but the DR was very limited.

 

[BatVal]

Thank you Scorcesefan! Super helpful and man that D16 bolax sensor had something alive about it. How great would it be if that made a 3ccd chip camera off a kodak ccd sensor or a large CCD camera similar to what they had done with the F35 but with a Kodak sensor. I love that kodak color. My grandfather used to work for kodak back in the days touch up photos for them, he was a photographer. (essentially he did what photoshop does to pictures now back then but by hand so Kodak would have clients from weddings etc and he would touch up the photos for the client by colored pencils etc and touch ups). there's always been something about kodak sensors to me that really whishes they pushed it passed the super 16 d16 level

 

[BatVal]

I don't know if you know the answer to this but I', super curious to know. The kodak sensor in the bolex d16 was a super 16 size sensor. The Codex Sinacam and ActionCam cameras have a 2/'3 kodak sensor on a semi conductor with about a 12mm diagnol for the sensor. Apparently they say with 11.5 - 13.5 dynamic range. Would you happend to know if that odak sensor in the sinacam and codex actioncam is the same or similar color wise the the kodak ccd super 16 sensor in the digital bolex d16? they're both ccd and only 2/3' to super 16 so I was wondering if they were at all similar.

 

[Guest]

I used the f55 a fair bit and had an f5.. definitely a great camera back in the day , but for just a bit more than a cheap 2nd hand f55 , I feel something like an fx6 with variable ND, FF , S Cinetone and basically just a newer sensor is a better bet for someone with a 5-10 year plan.. actually I would recommend a second hand fx9 as the best idea even over a new fx6... this really is a very good all round camera for the price ..

i’ve only shot with the A7s3, so perhaps the Fx6 is better, but i felt the way the codec handled and the colours fetl more pure on the F55 than on the A7s3. but perhaps the Fx6 is just that much better than the A7s?

The F55 can look way too video, if not handled well, but as viewers preference for clean has evolved, the F55 has aged well.

F55 dynamic range is up there with the Komodo, but the colours seemed more true on the Sony. both cameras looked good though. the F55 is just easier to use, and easier to weild that a Komodo franken rig. i wouldn’t pay $10K for one, but i saw a set go for $3,500 the other day. that is less than half the price of an Fx6 kit. And when shooting 10bit 4k, the F55 pulls less than 27wh !!! (standby and rec combined)

But yeah, if it is between spending $10K on an Fx6 kit and $10K on an F55 kit, then maybe the Fx6 has more of the modern touches that people are growing to expect, like clean iso12,800. but once you start spending money in kitting a $6K camera, then the budget is $10K and that opens up a while can of worms on possibility.

 

[Guest]

I'd look at a used Red. No overwhelming preference, just that it might have that Digital Bolex flavor at 4K. Not sure if it lasts 5-10 years but, IMO, it's better to get higher end gear that has a few, but not too many, miles on it rather than a lower priced consumer quality stuff.

That said, electronics performance jumps from generation to generation instead of advancing in a straight line. It may flat line for a few years, then explodes with extra features and classic gear is pretty much left for a real enthusiast.

PS. Side note, last week I saw a guy driving around the neighborhood in a convertible Cadillac Eldorado from the early 1970's. All black too. How old is that car? My spell checker doesn't even know what an Eldorado is.

yeah, the Red Epics are coming down in price, and Scarlets too. the Red One is down to $2K and there is a team developing new cheap media for it. could give that camera new life.

 

[Doug Jensen]

i’ve only shot with the A7s3, so perhaps the Fx6 is better, but i felt the way the codec handled and the colours fetl more pure on the F55 than on the A7s3. but perhaps the Fx6 is just that much better than the A7s?

I own both an F55 and FX6 and I can tell you that the F55 definitely has superior image quality. Sure, the FX6 has a FF sensor, variable ND, 120 fps internal, etc. but if you just compare images the F55 easily beats it. Plus the F55 makes it so easy to shoot 16-bit RAW with an R5 or R7 which basically attaches and functions just as if it was an integral part of the camera. If anyone thinks a high-end show like THE CROWN could have been shot on an FX6 they need to take a closer look.

 

[DLD]

Those older cars though when they fix them up on those tv shows and modernize them with all the bells and whistles espeicllay those muscle cars woowee theyre fire and look good when restored.

As someone who remembers the early 70's Cadillac Eldorados - not brand new but after several years of low riding - I was impressed. But cars are modular and they can be fixed and modded. Cameras of a certain age are generally discarded.

As a side note, on the lower end of gear, which I inadvertently insulted, there are Canon EOS R and Panasonic S1. Both can record ProRes Raw to an external recorder. EOS R is cheaper and crops (but you can add some wide primes). S1 sends out a 6K signal but has a crappy auto focus. Canon can be used with its outgoing EF glass via an adapter. Panasonic can be deployed manually, so you can get any glass with an L-adapter. EOS R runs $1,800 and the Atomos Ninja 5 another $600.

The next step up, and this is a process one of the long time posters went through recently is a used/new Canon C200. It's $5,500 new and whatever one can negotiate for a used.