Scarlet Announcement

I do have to add one caveat... the rumored Canon EOS mount APS-C video camera that is supposed to be announced next year. It was rumored that it will be priced at around $7,000.

Too many speculations and personal hopes are involved in these rumors, IMHO. What lens system will it have? Current EF, EF-s lenses are not designed for proper operation in video mode. Can anyone bet Canon won't try to release new lens system (with shorter flange distance, for example) limited in compatibility with current one to gather more coins in their pocket? Then, why 7K$, not (let's say) 17K$? Cause it will replace H1x cams on market? But it can easily be a new step in price ladder. Canon don't have high-end cams - nice opportunity to start having.

At least, after all changes and shifts, Scarlet currently looks a little bit more real and affordable (fixed one) than any hypothetical concurrent device from other brands. Save money for it and even in worst case scenario you'll be 5K closer to any other cam you'll be able to buy at that moment.
 
A lot of people over at Scarletuser are saying they don't expect the FF to come to market, because of it's closeness to the Epic. The S35 fully configured is going to be much more expensive than $7000 (try $12-15,000). If you are doing broadcast or need quick workflow turnaround Canon may still be the way to go. Unfortunately.
 
yoclay said:
A lot of people over at Scarletuser are saying they don't expect the FF to come to market, because of it's closeness to the Epic. .
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A lot of people speculate without any information, and then that speculation turns to rumors, and then people are running around saying they heard xyz...

:)
 
Like Chris noted pages ago, I'm really burnt out on all the endless hype, followed by endless changes and delays from Red. Someone wake me when I can actually see some working footage from a camera I can actually purchase and have within a week or so - you know, like products from every other company.

As to the Canons, we can't easily comment on anything unmade, let alone unannounced. Like Scarlet, until it's actually released, it's still vapor, no matter how many specs or speculations one wants to espouse.

I will say this though, the fact that so many people are using the EOS Mark II (and soon to be Mark IV) and 7D, and getting fantastic looking footage out of them, even with their shortcomings, says a great deal right there about what we're willing to accept, and maybe expect - leaving Canon a great deal of leeway, depending on what they want to manufacture. It does make sense to me though to make a big machine with guts similar to the Mark IV essentially replacing the XH-H1, and a smaller/fixed machine with guts similar to the 7D replacing the A1. One would think those would sell like hotcakes. But who knows what they are thinking or planning?
 
I wonder why RED's approach pisses so many people off.

Just enjoy the announcements and buy them when they hit the market if something appeals to you.
 
Ryan Paige said:
Because it's like some hot chick telling you she's going to give you the best night of passionate, naughty sex you'll ever have in your life six months from now. And during that six months, she keeps giving you hotter and hotter details of what she's going to do to you and what she's going to let you do to her. Maybe she even starts talking about inviting her friend, the nymphomaniac who used to be a model but had to quit because she was just too beautiful. And then when the date starts to get close and you can hardly button your pants anymore, she calls and says it's going to be another six months.

And then everybody says "What's the big deal, you can totally bang that girl with the unibrow and mullet during the next six months and figure out in six months whether you'll even want to bang the hot chick and her nympho friend."
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:grin:
 
I'd just bang the nympho. Oh wait, I did. I bought an HMC150. lol

I'll believe the release date when I see people with the camera in there hands in the real world. :)
 
I wonder why RED's approach pisses so many people off.

Watching the rich boy plays expensive toy you can't afford for too long.
 
Nektonic said:
I do have to add one caveat... the rumored Canon EOS mount APS-C video camera that is supposed to be announced next year. It was rumored that it will be priced at around $7,000. The recent price increase on the Scarlet 2/3 fixed has brought it a bit close to the possible Canon competitor. I would assume that Canon would have to iron out some of the issues with the video modes on their DSLR's with a dedicated video camera. Of course, it is still gonna be limited to 1080p and with a lesser quality codec, even if it is a much better one than the current crop of DSLR's use. And then probably no 120 fps modes, so the Scarlet should still stand out pretty well if Canon does release something to compete with it.
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The main problem of DSLRs, aliasing is easily solved once you optimize the bandpass filter to video rather than still resolution. Going for the Canon might be more traditional, and more portable ,form factor. However, will it also have RAW, optimal codec, cinema accessories, and compatibility with industry standard cams? No. Also consider the difference in between EOS still lenses and Red lenses, especially how they work with the advanced focusing functions found in Scarlet. Not comparable systems to my eye. But then I have held neither cam in my hands so all is speculation on limited information.
 
Ryan Paige said:
Because it's like some hot chick telling you she's going to give you the best night of passionate, naughty sex you'll ever have in your life six months from now. And during that six months, she keeps giving you hotter and hotter details of what she's going to do to you and what she's going to let you do to her. Maybe she even starts talking about inviting her friend, the nymphomaniac who used to be a model but had to quit because she was just too beautiful. And then when the date starts to get close and you can hardly button your pants anymore, she calls and says it's going to be another six months.

And then everybody says "What's the big deal, you can totally bang that girl with the unibrow and mullet during the next six months and figure out in six months whether you'll even want to bang the hot chick and her nympho friend."
Click to expand...

I've totally been there mate, and yeah, I was pretty pissed.

LOL

However, well... RED appeals to other fronts for me.

:happy:
 
Ryan Paige said:
Because it's like some hot chick telling you she's going to give you the best night of passionate, naughty sex you'll ever have in your life six months from now. And during that six months, she keeps giving you hotter and hotter details of what she's going to do to you and what she's going to let you do to her. Maybe she even starts talking about inviting her friend, the nymphomaniac who used to be a model but had to quit because she was just too beautiful. And then when the date starts to get close and you can hardly button your pants anymore, she calls and says it's going to be another six months.

And then everybody says "What's the big deal, you can totally bang that girl with the unibrow and mullet during the next six months and figure out in six months whether you'll even want to bang the hot chick and her nympho friend."
Click to expand...

That was seriously funny, and a decent analogy as well.
 
Ryan Paige said:
Because it's like some hot chick telling you she's going to give you the best night of passionate, naughty sex you'll ever have in your life six months from now. And during that six months, she keeps giving you hotter and hotter details of what she's going to do to you and what she's going to let you do to her. Maybe she even starts talking about inviting her friend, the nymphomaniac who used to be a model but had to quit because she was just too beautiful. And then when the date starts to get close and you can hardly button your pants anymore, she calls and says it's going to be another six months.

And then everybody says "What's the big deal, you can totally bang that girl with the unibrow and mullet during the next six months and figure out in six months whether you'll even want to bang the hot chick and her nympho friend."
Click to expand...


Hahaha. Hands down the best scarlet analogy I've heard so far. :beer:
 
Ryan Paige said:
Because it's like some hot chick telling you she's going to give you the best night of passionate, naughty sex you'll ever have in your life six months from now. And during that six months, she keeps giving you hotter and hotter details of what she's going to do to you and what she's going to let you do to her. Maybe she even starts talking about inviting her friend, the nymphomaniac who used to be a model but had to quit because she was just too beautiful. And then when the date starts to get close and you can hardly button your pants anymore, she calls and says it's going to be another six months.

And then everybody says "What's the big deal, you can totally bang that girl with the unibrow and mullet during the next six months and figure out in six months whether you'll even want to bang the hot chick and her nympho friend."
Click to expand...


Have.... you been reading my Diary?!
 
Red is re-adjusting.

Red is re-adjusting.

DSLR's showed up, and Red lost most prosumer market due to their delays, and from now on they are going for the pro.'s. Added features, added delays to add more features, added prices show that.

A professional would go with a Red, or film, but DSLR format is catching up with higher end looks. They also offer -much- better prices for the prosumers like me. We were buying $5K prosumer cameras (and $1500 DOF adapters), but now, it's either a $2K Canon 5D (Ebay), or a $15K Red. Easy pick. Since many (like myself) were already into photography, we already had the lenses we can use on both worlds, photos/videos.

I bet DSLR's will eventually wipe out lower end Red models as well. Red will go sit on the market without the revolutionary change they aimed to claim. They will be good, but very expensive. It's been done.

The future will be:
1. The small/light, easy to place/move on the set, high quality DSLR's.
2. Made for pro.'s, expensive, but great if you have a crew/big budget digital cameras.

#2 was around, but #1 is a great new choice, especially for the early career years.

Actually, many of the most rated/liked/commented videos on the web were shot on DSLR's of $1K-$3K. More than the camera, it's the story, and how much people can relate to it makes the change. If you are good, the bigger equipment will come.

I shot this with a $950 Nikon D90. The budget was $1000, and half of that was the music royalty fees. It's my 1st short movie. Not the best, but DSLR's made it possible. I am the only crew, so even a Canon XH-A1 (2nd camera I had at the time) would be too much to handle for me. I couldn't use it.

I think me, and the DSLR's grow in time, and I will keep using them.
http://www.vimeo.com/7634185

Regards,
Eril.
 
Hello Eril,

Totally new to the forum so forgive any faux pas I might make.

Just wondering about your view on the totally configurable cameras out there like the Elphel 353? Uncompressed video and superb 10 and 12 bit output.

Regaards,

J
 
eril2006 said:
DSLR's showed up, and Red lost most prosumer market due to their delays, and from now on they are going for the pro.'s. Added features, added delays to add more features, added prices show that.

A professional would go with a Red, or film, but DSLR format is catching up with higher end looks. They also offer -much- better prices for the prosumers like me. We were buying $5K prosumer cameras (and $1500 DOF adapters), but now, it's either a $2K Canon 5D (Ebay), or a $15K Red. Easy pick. Since many (like myself) were already into photography, we already had the lenses we can use on both worlds, photos/videos.

I bet DSLR's will eventually wipe out lower end Red models as well. Red will go sit on the market without the revolutionary change they aimed to claim. They will be good, but very expensive. It's been done.

The future will be:
1. The small/light, easy to place/move on the set, high quality DSLR's.
2. Made for pro.'s, expensive, but great if you have a crew/big budget digital cameras.

#2 was around, but #1 is a great new choice, especially for the early career years.

Actually, many of the most rated/liked/commented videos on the web were shot on DSLR's of $1K-$3K. More than the camera, it's the story, and how much people can relate to it makes the change. If you are good, the bigger equipment will come.

I shot this with a $950 Nikon D90. The budget was $1000, and half of that was the music royalty fees. It's my 1st short movie. Not the best, but DSLR's made it possible. I am the only crew, so even a Canon XH-A1 (2nd camera I had at the time) would be too much to handle for me. I couldn't use it.

I think me, and the DSLR's grow in time, and I will keep using them.
http://www.vimeo.com/7634185

Regards,
Eril.
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You forget the main reason I, and a lot of people, will be buying Scarlet systems. They are modular.... It promises massive long term savings. The module that houses the sensor is completely seperate and upgradeable. This opens up the possibility to affordably upgrade your sensor every couple years, not having to buy and learn a new camera system every time the new flavor of the month comes out, owning mulitple sensor modules and interchanging them like lenses etc.

I think you seriously underestimate the impact this modular system is going to have on the market.
 
landogarner said:
You forget the main reason I, and a lot of people, will be buying Scarlet systems. They are modular.... It promises massive long term savings. The module that houses the sensor is completely seperate and upgradeable. This opens up the possibility to affordably upgrade your sensor every couple years, not having to buy and learn a new camera system every time the new flavor of the month comes out, owning mulitple sensor modules and interchanging them like lenses etc.

I think you seriously underestimate the impact this modular system is going to have on the market.
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When the promising stops and the delivery happens, then I will pay attention.

Until then, meh.
 
Modularity is important. But when modularity is provided by components besigned by and available from a single vendor, and the product is operating in a small market, the cost is increased a lot. It's nothing like the modularity an open market video card provides vs one soldered on the motherboard. There is increased design/manufacturing cost and increased logistics/support/service cost and the monopoly situation will not help. The upgrade could easily cost the same with a new system.

If Sony decided to offer the sensor or processing board of their 4000 euro camcorders in a module, the camera would probably cost 6000 and the upgrade would be 2000. And that's very conservative if you check the price of common accessories. You might as well buy the new model and give away the old one. A camcorder upgrade does not cost very much in any case. Camcorders keep a large part of their value even after 2 years. The cost of ownership per month is ridiculously low, even for expensive ones. It's the mass marketing of non modular products that achieves this.

In the Scarlet case, I believe the modularity mostly serves to offer an upgrade path to the more expensive systems. It makes the cost easier to swallow by distributing it in time, as one's needs change. And it makes it easier for Red to put someone into their product line. That's the purpose of an entry level system and most companies have entry levels systems designed exactly for that. Sometimes they are even losing money on those, but they serve as marketing for the rest of the line. A 300 euro Nikon D40 kit cannot possibly produce profit considering its parts. But it could get you into high end models with higher profit and into buying lenses and other accessories.
 
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