Samsung NX1 - 4K @ H.265!!!!

roxics said:
Why are we not talking more about this camera? It appears to be a GH4 that is $300 cheaper with an APS-C sensor and a higher bitrate 4K mode.
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I am, but no one commented on what I was pointing out above. I thought it must have scared everyone away. ;)

Seriously though, the IQ looks good so far. I'm hoping what I'm seeing above is just what Youtube did to it, not what the camera recorded. But like everyone else said- we don't know enough yet.
 
M. Gilden said:
I am, but no one commented on what I was pointing out above. I thought it must have scared everyone away. ;)

Seriously though, the IQ looks good so far. I'm hoping what I'm seeing above is just what Youtube did to it, not what the camera recorded. But like everyone else said- we don't know enough yet.
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As far as I know Youtube doesn't support H.265 which means there must be some conversion going on there. Most NLE systems don't support H.265 either so it could be an issue with whatever software they are using to make the conversion. Samsung said they would be releasing a piece of software for doing an H.265 to H.264 conversion for this very reason. So it's possible it is their conversion software they used that it is not perfect at going from one super compressed format to another compressed format.
 
On the other hand they did say the NX1 supports 8bit 4:2:2 UHD out of the HDMI port. So they could have used an external recorder for these videos as well. For all we know.
 
This camera has the potential to be incredible

It's unfortunate that it only offers 8 bit 4:2:2 HDMI out, 10 bit would have been ideal but it's not a deal breaker to me.

We obviously need to see some real world testing

This is the largest back lit sensor available right now and it SHOULD make a huge difference with low light performance. If this is a solid low light performer this system could easily supplant the GH4 system especially if you want a hybrid system. The extra resolution will come in handy for a lot of photographers.

First and foremost this camera needs a Nikon and Canon adapter to really be relevant. If Samsung were serious I would be working hand in hand with Metabones to have adapters and speedboosters ready to go once the camera is released. The number of people who will willingly dump money into expensive Samsung glass is going to be very small. I would be offering way more aggressive pricing on my lenses if I was Samsung. It is the only way you are going to get people to buy into your system in my opinion.

The fact that we are dealing with a downres'd 7K image is very impressive to me. This 7K downres apparently eliminates moire and aliasing, further testing will reveal the true facts. If the IQ and color science are rock solid this will be a really remarkable camera.
 
True North said:
First and foremost this camera needs a Nikon and Canon adapter to really be relevant. If Samsung were serious I would be working hand in hand with Metabones to have adapters and speedboosters ready to go once the camera is released.
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There are several Nikon to NX adapters via a quick google, as the NX system's been around for a while.

From wikipedia: The mount is designed for APS-C image sensors, with a 1.54x crop factor. Optical image stabilization is featured on some of the lenses, indicated by an "OIS" marking. Automatic focusing on NX lenses is handled by a dedicated electric motor built into the lens.

If Nikkors will go on this body... if the codec and color science are nice... I'm interested for sure.
 
The pictures I saw didn't look bad, there was some noise on some of them but without knowing what lens, aperture, shutter speed etc.... It's hard to judge the performance. I can't read whatever language the comments are in on that link so maybe there is more information there.

The camera will be out soon enough and I will wait for a proper review. Their last camera release (NX30) didn't get great reviews either so my expectations are reasonably low....but there is a part of me that remains hopeful. :-)
 
True North said:
The pictures I saw didn't look bad, there was some noise on some of them but without knowing what lens, aperture, shutter speed etc.... It's hard to judge the performance. I can't read whatever language the comments are in on that link so maybe there is more information there.

The camera will be out soon enough and I will wait for a proper review. Their last camera release (NX30) didn't get great reviews either so my expectations are reasonably low....but there is a part of me that remains hopeful. :-)
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It appears to have EXIF data under each picture. I noticed a lot of noise in some of them, but then I saw those pictures were taken at ISO 51200! That's a bit much to expect from an APS-C sensor IMO, but probably the ceiling limit of the camera so they wanted to test it.
Shooting primarily with micro43 cameras, I've learned to keep ISO under 800 whenever possible, so that doesn't scare me. This likely won't win any low-light awards. But at ISO 200, 400, and even 800, images look clean there. Lens might be a little soft, not crazy about the sharpness, but then again I AM pixel peeping here. When zoomed out, the images look nice... but most importantly, they appear to have excellent color. Even the noise at the 51200 ISO images can't hide how nice the colors look to me. This looks like a camera I could pull a decent video out of without excessive grading in post, something I can't really say about the Lumix cameras I'm currently using.

One thing that stuck out to me in the demo video we saw earlier, is how nice the color was. Really just beautiful. As much as I hate Canon DSLRs for their outdated video quality, the one thing I miss most about shooting with one is their color science. 4k, h.265, etc, are all nice, but I'd honestly be happy with a sharp 1080p camera that had good color. I'm keeping my eyes on this.
 
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I didn't notice the EXIF data, thanks for pointing that out M.Gilden.

If the ISO on some of those pics was set at 51000 than that would certainly explain the noise.

I am hoping that this camera would be a decent low light per performer given that it is using a back lit sensor. From what I understand it's the largest backlit sensor commercially available. Now I'm not expecting A7S low light performance but I am hoping it is significantly better than my GH4. I really like the GH4 but despise its low light performance.
 
hard to tell from just those shots, but on the surface those shots at 12,800 look near as clean as the c100.... but again, those are photos, not videograbs, and other details still unclear, so will of course have to wait and see
 
M. Gilden said:
As much as I hate Canon DSLRs for their outdated video quality, the one thing I miss most about shooting with one is their color science. 4k, h.265, etc, are all nice, but I'd honestly be happy with a sharp 1080p camera that had good color. I'm keeping my eyes on this.
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Try a Nikon 7100 or 5300. Even a D7000 will make you sell your Canons as far as color goes. Been very happy with those bodies for video.
 
Reading more on this body - H265's efficiency means you can shoot 4K on your existing class 10 cards. There are NX-series lens adapters for NikonF, Canon EF & SD, Leica... and freaking Arri PL - so the flange distance for the NX system seems damn flexible. If that applies to this body, there's a galaxy of vintage and modern glass that'll go on the thing. Headphone jack. Touch screen focus with next-gen phase detection and 200-some points, it's active when shooting video... I doubt you'll do focus pulls but that's very handy when setting up a shot.

Does it have manual audio and any sort of visual focus assist/peaking? Only a single card slot but clean HDMI out at 8 bit, including 4K.

The above are all printed specs and reality often is a harsh mistress. But for $1400, I am really hoping the footage is pretty and at least up to 7100/5300 quality - and we could certainly expect that with the H265 codec (many writers claim it's capable of prores quality in a fast-card video stream).

The potential for this to be "the" APS-C DSLR and beat the shortcomings of the GH4 (small sensor and not everyone's favorite look) (Though ya gotta love 96fps @1080) is certainly there.

Someone needs to get their hands on this suckah!!!
 
Yes I support that. Nikon colours are just as magical (or even a little more magical then) as Canon. Both these companies are the only two (well + arri) that seem to have found the key to making pleasing colours that sing somehow that can't be quite explained scientifically!
 
Michael Carter said:
Try a Nikon 7100 or 5300. Even a D7000 will make you sell your Canons as far as color goes. Been very happy with those bodies for video.
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Not happy with how Nikon handles video features. The color is good, I'll give it that. The resolution is better than Canon, which isn't saying much. But I choose not to shoot with one because I love my GH series cameras for their ergonomics in video, and I get way more lens options with m43. Also, I remember seeing early tests of the D800 showing some moire and my brain screamed "ITS EVERYTHING YOU HATE ABOUT CANON ALL OVER AGAIN!". In retrospect, that was probably an overexaggeration. The Nikons don't m&a nearly as bad as Canon does, but I had prided myself on leaving stuff like that behind when I switched to Panasonic. Its been really hard for me to be excited about Nikon's video mode beyond their impressive DR (which arguably doesn't make your footage "better" unless you need to push a grade).

Meanwhile, Nikon clearly has the chops to make an excellent DSLR video camera, it seems they just haven't really wanted to yet. I blame their lack of R&D in video features- unlike Canon and Panasonic, Nikon doesn't have a pro-video department. That means they are playing catch up in that market compared to their competitors, and that's why I think even though the D90 could have heralded in the era of DSLR video, it fell short on things like codec and rolling shutter. Nikon didn't (and still sort of doesn't) have any experience in what video shooters want/need.

Samsung isn't really known for their prosumer video cameras either, but it at least has its foot in a bit more markets than Nikon does. They definitely have experience in consumer electronics and that could be lending enough of a hand here to make this NX1 a force to be reckoned with.

I'm keeping my eyes on this and where Sony may be going next. Both seem very exciting to me.
 
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M. Gilden said:
Not happy with how Nikon handles video features. The color is good, I'll give it that. The resolution is better than Canon, which isn't saying much. But I choose not to shoot with one because I love my GH series cameras for their ergonomics in video, and I get way more lens options with m43. Also, I remember seeing early tests of the D800 showing some moire and my brain screamed "ITS EVERYTHING YOU HATE ABOUT CANON ALL OVER AGAIN!". In retrospect, that was probably an overexaggeration. The Nikons don't m&a nearly as bad as Canon does, but I had prided myself on leaving stuff like that behind when I switched to Panasonic. Its been really hard for me to be excited about Nikon's video mode beyond their impressive DR (which arguably doesn't make your footage "better" unless you need to push a grade).

Meanwhile, Nikon clearly has the chops to make an excellent DSLR video camera, it seems they just haven't really wanted to yet. I blame their lack of R&D in video features- unlike Canon and Panasonic, Nikon doesn't have a pro-video department. That means they are playing catch up in that market compared to their competitors, and that's why I think even though the D90 could have heralded in the era of DSLR video, it fell short on things like codec and rolling shutter. Nikon didn't (and still sort of doesn't) have any experience in what video shooters want/need.
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Yeah, the GH vs. "everything else" will rage on til the GH10 I imagine. Myself, never happy with it. Some of it's the small sensor I think, the rest is that my AC130 looks almost the same. I guess I'm in the "looks more like a video cam" camp, and that argument has filled these pages for years now.

That said, in good hands it does a great job. The 7000 and 7100 Nikons have given me zero moire problems though. I've never been a DR freak with DSLRs, that's why there's blackmagic I guess - DSLRs to me are the "I own it for lower budgets with no rentals" - I never purchased a BM cam due to the investment in SDI, power, speedbooster, etc. But they're easy to rent, I won't buy something new until I get 60p at 1080. (And the 7100 is great for stills gigs, which i still do a fair amount of).

I too am amazed that Nikon hasn't done something like the canon cinema cameras. I don't think they're playing catch-up, I think they've decided it's not a market they'll pursue. The **only** APS-C issues I have with Nikon compared to Canon & Panasonic is how long it took for 1080-60 - hell, I've rented 5300's for music videos, the 7100 is still 720. I use aperture ring glass so that hasn't been an issue (but I imagine how it pisses people off!) I assume Nikon's done their research and decided the portion of people buying DSLRs for pro video use is too small to spend the R&D on, with canon so entrenched in the high end and "cinema cam" market.

Look at the sales charts for cameras and DSLRs and you can see R&D investments are likely a worrisome deal. Nikon seems intent on figuring out what the soccer mom wants (no 4K yet from them, they seem to view that as hype at this point). DVXuser regulars often assume we're a huge slice of the market... the only manufacturer who acts like we are is Panasonic, with the GH4. Which was a lot of potential but somewhat disappointing in the delivery - at least they're trying. I wouldn't have been shocked if instead of the D750, we'd gotten a 4k 7200 with peaking and aperture control. Instead we got an evolutionary (not revolutionary) full frame body that's pretty affordable for a full frame DSLR. That says a world about Nikon's market direction (though Photokina may not be the whole story).
 
dspographer said:
They won't have 4K at 240 fps recording because they can't encode that rate, but this means the rolling shutter is likely to be only about 4 ms.
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Yes, it does point to that conclusion, which is effectivly negligable. It will really piss me off if this has rolling shutter problems for some unknown reason. I just hope they give profile adjustment or a flat picture style to start off with.
 
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