Red Scarlet footage anyone?

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dustylense said:
I'll stick to 1080p until I see a $1500 4k monitor at Bestbuy. The only thing I could justify shooting 4k is the ability to reframe an image in post. I'll just use the whole frame in my 1080p cam. It's called composition and being a photographer. Raw, 4k... Just another way to make photographers lazy.
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Dusty...I am totally with you. I've never understood this idea of shooting 4K with the intent of cropping, zooming, or doing camera moves in post. For example, does that mean the DP would shoot a wide shot with the expectation that the editor will crop for a medium close-up or a close-up later?

That's not "freedom", it's just wrong! First off, a cropped or zoomed in shot is not the same thing as actually shooting the shot you want. They have different characteristics etc.

I admit, I have very occasionally cropped or zoomed specific shots, slightly, using 1080P footage that was delivered and finished at 720p. But that was just save my ass type of stuff, where a shadow appeared in the edge of frame or something like that. There was no plan to mimic camera moves or create shots.

I was thinking, maybe you shoot a movie, and you have a close-up on a face, and then later you decide -- I want to go close in on that eye! Okay, use your 4k resolution! Other than that, my belief is you plan ahead, frame and shoot the shot that you want, when you are shooting.
 
Kenneth Fisher said:
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I was thinking, maybe you shoot a movie, and you have a close-up on a face, and then later you decide -- I want to go close in on that eye! Okay, use your 4k resolution! Other than that, my belief is you plan ahead, frame and shoot the shot that you want, when you are shooting.
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This is exactly why shooting 4K can be beneficial. And, it happens in nearly everything anyone watches that goes through a post process.

SOmetimes the shot you need just isn't there, no matter how well-planned things were. It is a huge factor in nearly all environments, from music video and commercial to documentary.

It also helps when stabilizing a shot in post.
 
Kholi said:
This is exactly why shooting 4K can be beneficial. And, it happens in nearly everything anyone watches that goes through a post process.

SOmetimes the shot you need just isn't there, no matter how well-planned things were. It is a huge factor in nearly all environments, from music video and commercial to documentary.

It also helps when stabilizing a shot in post.
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I think that makes sense. But I have read people writing about, and even seen some examples of zooming all around a frame or grabbing 3 different shots from a wide shot. I didn't think it looked very good, and to me that shouldn't be the plan of attack. (I think you and I are in agreement!)
 
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Ugh. Did that dude seriously just shoot flowers for 30 seconds?!? THAT'S our first Scarlet footage? I think I'm gonna be sick...
 
Kenneth Fisher said:
I think that makes sense. But I have read people writing about, and even seen some examples of zooming all around a frame or grabbing 3 different shots from a wide shot. I didn't think it looked very good, and to me that shouldn't be the plan of attack. (I think you and I are in agreement!)
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Yeah, we agree. It wouldn't be such a bad way to go for a web series, but the cut would be very weird and need a lot of manipulation for it to look right.

That's not how I would go into the game, but I would definitely remember that I could do it once we got to post.

This is another reason why the formats need to be embraced, not pit against each other. Each has their own benefit.
 
Cool, lets just go stick a camera on some sticks with a medium wide and we'll compose later. Then we can spend 3 or 4 hours in post to reframe the shot, and upload it to our web series. Photographically I get hired for my eye, not some special camera. If this is the future, anyone who went to art school should just quit as your eye will no longer be sought out.

The camera doesn't take the picture, the cameraman does....
 
dustylense said:
Cool, lets just go stick a camera on some sticks with a medium wide and we'll compose later. Then we can spend 3 or 4 hours in post to reframe the shot, and upload it to our web series. Photographically I get hired for my eye, not some special camera. If this is the future, anyone who went to art school should just quit as your eye will no longer be sought out.

The camera doesn't take the picture, the cameraman does....
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Having a good Monday dustylense? hehe! I understand you don't like 4k and you are not a big fan of RED but can we please get back to the thread and talk about Scarlett footage? Just a thought.

Simon
 
szimmer said:
Having a good Monday dustylense? hehe! I understand you don't like 4k and you are not a big fan of RED but can we please get back to the thread and talk about Scarlett footage? Just a thought.

Simon
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Ok, those are pretty flowers. Scarlet is supposedly been shipping since the 17th. Maybe he was 10 feet from the flower bed and reframed them using 4k?
 
szimmer said:
LMAO! hehe! You are too much!
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We'll see plenty of Scarlet footage as the cameras get into hands. THey will be on vimeo and in hands of people thinking it will make their pictures better. When they do arrive, make sure to look at other videos they filmed in the past. There will be plenty of beauty shots, maybe titles like "a day with my dog, in 4k, converted to 1080p". Then, we will see TONS of slow-mo footage. TONS! What does the Scarlet crop 120fps at? Sure, we will see some nice shots off the Scarlet while in the hands of some creatives. I can't wait for the first skateboard Scarlet footage. I mean, we already knocked the flowers out of the park.

If I were the VERY FIRST to receive a Scarlet, I would have called all my friends up and shot some substantial footage. Maybe make a 3 minute short. Flowers! That is Scarlets legacy now???????
 
dustylense said:
We'll see plenty of Scarlet footage as the cameras get into hands. THey will be on vimeo and in hands of people thinking it will make their pictures better. When they do arrive, make sure to look at other videos they filmed in the past. There will be plenty of beauty shots, maybe titles like "a day with my dog, in 4k, converted to 1080p". Then, we will see TONS of slow-mo footage. TONS! What does the Scarlet crop 120fps at? Sure, we will see some nice shots off the Scarlet while in the hands of some creatives. I can't wait for the first skateboard Scarlet footage. I mean, we already knocked the flowers out of the park.

If I were the VERY FIRST to receive a Scarlet, I would have called all my friends up and shot some substantial footage. Maybe make a 3 minute short. Flowers! That is Scarlets legacy now???????
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Tonaci is a working pro with a busy schedule. He grabbed a few shots after a full day of work before packing for a trip. First chance he had to shoot anything with it.
 
Tonaci said he is working on a documentary so soon there will be some real footage with the Scarlet. Besides, he even joked about the flowers himself.

Happy Thanksgiving dustylense! I hope you are less grumpy on turkey day! :)

Simon
 
dustylense said:
We'll see plenty of Scarlet footage as the cameras get into hands. THey will be on vimeo and in hands of people thinking it will make their pictures better. When they do arrive, make sure to look at other videos they filmed in the past. There will be plenty of beauty shots, maybe titles like "a day with my dog, in 4k, converted to 1080p". Then, we will see TONS of slow-mo footage. TONS! What does the Scarlet crop 120fps at? Sure, we will see some nice shots off the Scarlet while in the hands of some creatives. I can't wait for the first skateboard Scarlet footage. I mean, we already knocked the flowers out of the park.

If I were the VERY FIRST to receive a Scarlet, I would have called all my friends up and shot some substantial footage. Maybe make a 3 minute short. Flowers! That is Scarlets legacy now???????
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I was expecting a mind blowing highlights video when they announced it. Anyone putting down the money deserves to see something.. Couldn't they've found a better candidate to give the first Scarlet to with this guys busy schedule? I mean it's kind of a big deal all over reduser who got the first Scarlet and the guy is filming flowers lol..
 
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camcam said:
I was expecting a mind blowing highlights video when they announced it. Anyone putting down the money deserves to see something.. Couldn't they've found a better candidate to give the first Scarlet to with this guys busy schedule? I mean it's kind of a big deal all over reduser who got the first Scarlet and the guy is filming flowers lol..
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I've been thinking about this since the 4th. RED has a huge sound stage and they have done NOTHING about showing footage off the Scarlet. Don't tell me to watch Epic footage. If you go to Reduser, you will see lots of concern about people who have ordered and have not received any correspondence back from RED, and some are getting worried.
Fine Tonaci shot some flowers. Big deal. He's busy. He's posted some screen grabs. Cool. Is he the ONLY guy with a Scarlet?

If RED wants to act like they sell Ferraris, then have customer service that goes with it. That is my turn off of RED. THe arrogance. I've read post where Jim says to many that criticized Scarlet, and Jim said that he would not sell a camera to them. WTF?

TO back this camera up as the greatest thing ever, one would expect footage. Even if its a person standing there with a color chart. Nobody is too busy to do that.
 
The poor guy is going to cop a lot of flack for shooting flowers! Considering that footage will be looked at by thousands and thousands of people... nice music too.
 
dustylense said:
Cool, lets just go stick a camera on some sticks with a medium wide and we'll compose later. Then we can spend 3 or 4 hours in post to reframe the shot, and upload it to our web series. Photographically I get hired for my eye, not some special camera. If this is the future, anyone who went to art school should just quit as your eye will no longer be sought out.

The camera doesn't take the picture, the cameraman does....
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True enough, but if being able to shoot a single medium shot of a character's monologue and then perform a slow zoom in to a close-up in post, allows you to save an hour of shooting time setting up a dolly and trying to make a highly difficult dolly move and focus pull - that's time in your pocket to shoot additional coverage that will add greater depth to your end product.

That, to me, is a serious boon to having 4K/5K resolution.

It's just that it's not enough of a boon for me to sacrifice greater sensitivity, tonality and cleanliness.

An interesting thought that occurred to me the other night whilst I was being shocked by the noise I was seeing in the Epic shorts - was that noticeable film grain in low-light scenes from movies in the past never bothered me, but digital noise (at least when it's as obvious as the stuff I saw the other night) does. I wonder why that is?
 
Scarlet's footage looks very similar to the Epic. They are brother and sister however the brother is older and wiser. But 4k raw for around 20k is still a friggin bargain! Looking forward to doing youtube in 4k! ;)
 
dustylense said:
I've been thinking about this since the 4th. RED has a huge sound stage and they have done NOTHING about showing footage off the Scarlet. Don't tell me to watch Epic footage. If you go to Reduser, you will see lots of concern about people who have ordered and have not received any correspondence back from RED, and some are getting worried.
Fine Tonaci shot some flowers. Big deal. He's busy. He's posted some screen grabs. Cool. Is he the ONLY guy with a Scarlet?

If RED wants to act like they sell Ferraris, then have customer service that goes with it. That is my turn off of RED. THe arrogance. I've read post where Jim says to many that criticized Scarlet, and Jim said that he would not sell a camera to them. WTF?

TO back this camera up as the greatest thing ever, one would expect footage. Even if its a person standing there with a color chart. Nobody is too busy to do that.
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Totally agree that the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around about RED sometimes is the attitude. Very unprofessional, often super-macho, aggressive and frequently more than a little vindicative. It's borderline absurd at times.

However, I can chose to ignore this and focus on what really matters. The camera - which is probably great, if I could just sort through all the hoopla.
I think for me there remains big concerns about delivery times, how many builds it will take to get a properly working, dependable camera and the REAL price of what one need in terms of accessories and post to have a functioning workflow.

I can accept that Scarlet footage should be the same as Epic in theory. However, from the point of view of marketing it appears that RED chooses to market to the faithful and has assumed that they have built such a pent up demand that when the floodgates are open, the buyers will always just come pouring in. It appears they were right where Scarlet is concerned.

In this kind of environment criticism is unacceptable. It is the opposite of faithful.

Giving more information in the form of footage would only open them up to more criticism. Just as they chose not participate in the Zacuto Camera shootout against the Alexa and various others, it seems obvious that less is more for them. In this way they maintain an aura of independance and exclusivity.

In these kind of situations, I tend to view it like any other 1st genereation product. Better to wait until the product becomes stabilized and perhaps even the next upgrade is upon us. I can afford to miss the stampede, because I will have a more stable product and perhaps even a better set of specs for the same price. In this case perhaps this will come in the form of the Dragon sensor (but who know when that will be) and an expanded set of resolutions and frame rates.

I myself would never buy a camera on faith or based on promo videos alone - that is a prescription for disaster. I need a tool I can count on when I am concentrating on what really matters and that is the subject before me. Therefore I need to do some testing for myself and look at other endusers experiences that are already out there first. That is where the real value of the forums come in for me.
 
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I understand the issues people have with RED but I also understand why others love them. At the end of the day, the person shelling out 14k and most likely more will have to make the decision whether to buy a RED camera, Sony or whatever. If he did not do his homework, that is his own fault. But it still does not explain why some people on this thread are so "angry" and "grumpy" about RED. If you don't like it, just don't buy it and move on. Is RED indirectly affecting your business in a negative way that I don't see? I hate to see what some people on here sound like when they really "hate" something that is important to them. :( What RED does or does not do seems so trivial in most people lives but some people act as if RED burned down their house or something. Very strange.

Done ranting. Time to work. ;)

Happy Thanksgiving!

Simon
 
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