Red Scarlet footage anyone?

12 seconds isn't that bad considering what your getting, heck I wouldn't be all that bothered if it were 30 seconds. This is a cinema cam first, not the type of cam to fire it on and grab quick shots of birds flying or something, the gh2 is fine for that type of stuff.

I do agree with what people are saying about Red though. Although any company is going to cater to the big boys that are spending millions with them. Sure you will get decent treatment if your buying just one cam. But if your buying 10, you will be treated like a king.
 
I don't know why people can't accept that Scarlet footage will look like all the Epic footage we've seen. Red One MX looks almost identical to Epic at the same res/framerate. Scarlet is literally just an underclocked Epic.
 
There is another thing to consider with higher resolution shots and that is image stabilization. I've had to fix material where the camera moved more than I wanted (someone else shot it) and having to zoom in to account for the movement of the camera DEFINITELY dropped the resolution of the scene. Having the freedom to fix that and not sacrifice the look of the scene would be great.

Also mentioned, being able to to pans or other post camera movements can be nice as well. It's just a tool to explore really. I don't see it as good or bad, but I can see in certain things where maybe an actors movement is unpredictable due to the timing of a huge number of things, it could save time and takes.

Pertaining to the noise, I think a good point has been made by Graeme over in the other thread and that is that the Red cameras are not doing noise reduction in camera. The cameras we are comparing the footage with are doing noise reduction. Take a look at the footage after someone used neat video on it. There are MANY noise reduction plugins. If you really want to compare the footage to another camera, you need to employ more than just Red's noise reduction tool. And, if you really want to compare the noise to each other, reduce the size down to 1080p and look at them.

Granted, I do agree if I have a 4k camera that shoots in 4k then I'd want to have good 4k results, I also think it's valid that looking at a crop on a non-4k display isn't really showing you want to expect either.

With the smaller pixel sizes of the Epic/Scarlet, that's the sacrifice you will make AT 4k resolution I feel.

Another thing to consider is that the Epic/Scarlet do not have adjustable analog gain after the sensor. Red uses ONE gain value and that's it. This means the noise structure will ALWAYS be consistent, in terms of analog, which on other cameras, changes relative to the gain levels. Just interesting to think about.

I think this is worth repeating though: With the Red philosophy, the camera is doing as LITTLE as possible to the footage it gets. For good or bad (and for some, that is a bad thing) it is what it is. If you want to make that footage shine, you have to do the post processing in place of the camera processing that other camera do. It's VERY MANUAL! :)

I'm still waiting for some waterfall pictures!

:)

Now, what hasn't been discussed as well is shooting windowed. If you shoot at a 2K window on the Scarlet, I want to see how THAT holds up to say a 1080p file on the F3 or other camera.
 
sblfilms said:
I don't know why people can't accept that Scarlet footage will look like all the Epic footage we've seen. Red One MX looks almost identical to Epic at the same res/framerate. Scarlet is literally just an underclocked Epic.
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Just like the Canon T2i looks like the Canon 7D, right? Nobody doubts the Scarlet will have wonderful 24p capture. But there is the 3K, the 2k, and the 1K/120 modes. Name a camera that you have not seen footage from the camera maker. This Scarlet is not an Epic with the above stated resolutions. Might be the same sensor, but the chip is not the same. People just want to see footage at all the res/speeds the camera can offer. But NOTHING released from RED.
You said it yourself, "Red One MX looks almost identical to Epic at the same res/framerate." I'm noticing the word "almost".
 
dustylense said:
Just like the Canon T2i looks like the Canon 7D, right? Nobody doubts the Scarlet will have wonderful 24p capture. But there is the 3K, the 2k, and the 1K/120 modes. Name a camera that you have not seen footage from the camera maker. This Scarlet is not an Epic with the above stated resolutions. Might be the same sensor, but the chip is not the same. People just want to see footage at all the res/speeds the camera can offer. But NOTHING released from RED.
You said it yourself, "Red One MX looks almost identical to Epic at the same res/framerate." I'm noticing the word "almost".
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Are you sure the chips aren't the same? If I were to make a guess, I'd say the chips are the same, but, they don't run as fast. It's common to have chips that run at VERY different speeds in circuit design. This is how you get different tiers of speed in the CPU market. So you design a CPU, say 10% work at 1.5GHz, 20% work at 1.4Ghz and 50% work at 1.0Ghz. (assuming 20% don't work at all and this is VERY common).

Given it's digital, it doesn't limit the analog portion of the camera, just limits how much data you can get through the camera. Granted, if it limits the compression algorithm, which I believe it does, THAT could be a concern (and might be what you really are concerned about).
 
dustylense said:
Just like the Canon T2i looks like the Canon 7D, right? Nobody doubts the Scarlet will have wonderful 24p capture. But there is the 3K, the 2k, and the 1K/120 modes. Name a camera that you have not seen footage from the camera maker. This Scarlet is not an Epic with the above stated resolutions. Might be the same sensor, but the chip is not the same. People just want to see footage at all the res/speeds the camera can offer. But NOTHING released from RED.
You said it yourself, "Red One MX looks almost identical to Epic at the same res/framerate." I'm noticing the word "almost".
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You completely miss the point. The R1 MX uses the same sensor as Epic, but far different processing boards and they look nearly identical. The Scarlet it LITERALLY just an underclocked Epic (Same sensor, slower clocked ASICs). I know the 7D and the T2i have pretty different internal components. The T2i at the very least is not simply a slower speed version of the 7D.
 
Grug said:
but if being able to shoot a single medium shot of a character's monologue and then perform a slow zoom in to a close-up in post, allows you to save an hour of shooting time setting up a dolly and trying to make a highly difficult dolly move and focus pull - that's time in your pocket to shoot additional coverage that will add greater depth to your end product.
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Since when did zooming in on a 2D locked perspective give you anywhere near the same effect as a dolly in? Those are two totally different things. Maybe some wouldn't care too much, depends on your needs for the project.

I guess I understand the concern about people being able to easily reframe and all that stuff but if you ask me, the real problem with the crap we see on the internet is still more lighting related then framing so it doesn't bug me much. We'll still see loads of mediocre content turned into something semi-mediocre because they had 4K or RAW this time instead of something else.

Just the nature of things. Remember when magic bullet went big? I can't tell you how many times I pulled my hair out seeing the exact same filters used over and over and over again. If I see another poorly lit, over color-corrected, and bleach bypass looking short again I'll jump off a cliff.
 
sblfilms said:
You completely miss the point. The R1 MX uses the same sensor as Epic, but far different processing boards and they look nearly identical. The Scarlet it LITERALLY just an underclocked Epic (Same sensor, slower clocked ASICs). I know the 7D and the T2i have pretty different internal components. The T2i at the very least is not simply a slower speed version of the 7D.
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Honestly, I disagree with you. I shoot a ton of RED MX, been shooting EPIC now. The sensors may be the same but 4K vs 4K on both cameras, they do not look identical. Not to my eyes. There's a clear difference in Epic footage with the same glass versus the MX footage. 5K vs 4K modes, there's no contest what-so-ever. However, my eyes are hyper-sensitive.

I'd wager that a lot of people may not notice.

Grug is also right about the noise: I expect Scarlet to produce quite a tidy amount, and denoising in REDCINE works pretty well, especially when you're delivering a 2K master. Note: It also increases the time spent converting to other formats, a Red Rocket card is almost a must.
 
I can only go off of the stuff I've shot. Matching R1MX and Epic is pretty easy, but I also shoot mainly very well lit stages where I feel like the difference between the 12bit processing and 16bit processing may not come through as much.

But that doesn't change the more important fact that Scarlet is an underclocked Epic :p
 
I've noticed the difference between R1MX and EpicMX too. I tend to like MX better, maybe is the sensor size, maybe because it's less "clean" or maybe I've just seen much more work done on it then Epics. If Scarlet at 4K was similar to R1 MX it's be great IMO.
 
sblfilms said:
I can only go off of the stuff I've shot. Matching R1MX and Epic is pretty easy, but I also shoot mainly very well lit stages where I feel like the difference between the 12bit processing and 16bit processing may not come through as much.
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That's possible. You can match them pretty easily, for sure. Especially at 1080/2K. And, again, most people probably will not notice a difference, anyway.

Frustrating thing about shooting RED is wanting to actually keep the 5K material stored... it's a mental thing, and maybe it's also caused by the "future-proof" tirade--or pitch, depending on how you look at it. I'm actually afraid to get rid of the 5K/RAW! Ideally, you would just convert to 2K ProRes4444 for a workhorse machine and cut your master footage.

Or, switch to Premiere??? And just cut the raw. That would be a lot less painful me thinks.
 
Kholi, switching from Final Cut to Premiere Pro was the best decision I made since begging my wife to marry me :p
 
Lawless - bts

Lawless - bts

A few weeks ago I was at the Fun Fun Fun Fest in Austin, TX, and Terrance Malick showed up with his crew for the film Lawless (The one with Ryan Gosling). They were shooting A-cam with an Alexa, but they had a b-unit going around with RED DSMC's.

redepic_lawless.jpg

My initial assumption was that they were using Epics, but after looking at this pic, I noticed the grill on top does not have the curved top. It is flat, like the Scarlet. Probably still an Epic.
 
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sblfilms said:
Kholi, switching from Final Cut to Premiere Pro was the best decision I made since begging my wife to marry me :p
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Had a feeling for some time now that we would all have to move away from FCP and either go Avid or Premiere. Avid is too complicated for me, personally, so I think it's gonna be a new Premiere license and software.

It sucks, because FCP really does seem to have the most intuitive workflow.
 
James0b57 said:
My initial assumption was that they were using Epics, but after looking at this pic, I noticed the grill on top does not have the curved top. It is flat, like the Scarlet. Probably still an Epic.
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I believe that the Epic-M had curved grill and now the Epic-X has the flat one.
 
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