RED Renames Scarlet - Now "Epic Light"

[carlweston]

you are right...it all goes back to marshall mccluahans (don't think I spelled that right) theory of technology determinism. Music and audio has already predicted the future. 3 years ago i started my current 9-5 in a company I can't name but will say is prety big in the camera game (not a manufacturer) and I was constantly trying to tell documentary film makers that they'd have to go tapeless and they're better off being early to the party as opposed to late, I said look the audio world has been tapeless for damn near a decade. but nope film maker want to be stuborn. and look at the "game" now? it's all solid state, and those guys are now playing catch up.
price will determine a lot. as an audio hobbyist I was faced with the software vs hardware debate 8 years ago when the korg triton was all the rage (in pop and hip hop production). but as a college kid I had limmited $ and someone introduced me to REASON. I ended uop getting reason and a bunch of controllers (cause no matter how good software is, mouse clicking is no way to make music). I grew from REASON to Sonar...still rewire REASON into SONAR. Developed a Refill and VST addiction...but something was always missing I wanted something that could do what an MPC does. There was nothing now REASON 5 has KONG and I bought an MPD32 controller and my wish is granted (close but no cigar but I'll live with it)...I can't stand logic or FL studio becuase there ia no actual basis for the UI, Reason looks like a studio, I recognize racks and routing FL studio makes no sense to be (and I'm a 80s baby!).
Anyways the Point is that music and audio has already writen the road map for what will happen with Digital film making. but Film/Celluloid will Always be the AKAI MPC.
I despised the DSLR movement because it created so many falsehoods. (vista vision sensor allowing full retard shallow DOF). And I had to deal with more and more people who didn't know wtf they were doing trying to be or claiming to be "filmmakers". and honestly outside of shallow DOf the images from those thing were shyte...
Yeah the end is near, Hip Hop kats are now jumping to video/film making. and that more than anything tell me it's OVER
oh yeah before anyone takes offense to my comment about hip hop kats. I'm one, I've produced a couple of Records...But I do have a BFA from a proper film school and I'm a film maker first. the music is a hobby...My point is that when I notice certain ppl jumping into something with no base, I know it's become a hustle and It's about to get heavily saturated. Hourly rates are about to go WAY down and Clients are goint to be expecting more for less.​

I guess the canon 7d, 5d and so on are the equivalent to reason 5.0, flstudio & acid...anyone with a little money can play in this game. I can tell you there are a lot of sad producers out there because it's no longer a exclusive little club..

 

[Emanuel]

I guess the canon 7d, 5d and so on are the equivalent to reason 5.0, flstudio & acid...anyone with a little money can play in this game. I can tell you there are a lot of sad producers out there because it's no longer a exclusive little club..

Here is the ultimate truth.

As for instance, GH2 with a HDMI recorder can offer you the broadcast (professional in the RED dictionary) route for $1000 + $1000.

Any doubts?

 

[hawaj]

If I had $100k to drop on RED as an investment today, I'd do it. For a multitude of reasons. But the first and foremost is that I prefer to invest in companies with a singular focus, and the talent to meet their targets. RED has proven time and again they they understand their customers (not their wannabee customers) and that they can, and will, build products for those customers that other have not, can not, or will not.

As for more established companies... like who? MGM (bankrupt), Panavision (nearly bankrupt again), Kodak (I don't know ANYONE betting on film long term)....

he he ... guess who is making sensors for Ikonoskop, Drama and other cameras? :happy:

 

[hawaj]

mean's absolutely nothing!...more major studio projects will be shot with the arri alexa next year than the red1 an epic combined!...more jobs will be taken away from the red1 and epic by the sony F3, panasonic AF-100, 7D, 5D next year too!...lol
....you don't need to rent two Arri Alexa's on a one camera shoot either!

"I think the new Sony F3 will be a very interesting camera. So will the new Panasonic offerings, including the GF2. But why are we talking about this stuff here instead of DVXuser? I forgot.

Jim "

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=683904&postcount=22

or

"The Genesis, F35 and Alexa are all good cameras and can be used without hesitation. All have some pretty great projects on their resume. ..."

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=683883&postcount=25


Jim really likes his competition, even their new products ... and he collects them. rogar-BigGrin(DBG)

 

[matoliki]

1. sorry for bad english
I wish RED success, because if they make what they promise for that price then Canon, Sony, Panasonic etc. have to reply more aggressive. And thats what me as a costumer need. Aggressive competition save yours money people. I just hope that bad distribution dont kill RED Epic.

 

[Emanuel]

"I think the new Sony F3 will be a very interesting camera. So will the new Panasonic offerings, including the GF2. But why are we talking about this stuff here instead of DVXuser? I forgot.

Jim "

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=683904&postcount=22

(...)

C'mon, there he was just being ironic. With good sense of humor, BTW

 

[Billy Barber]

Whenever Jim steps in like that with his gigantic RED logo I'm always reminded of the scene where Charlton Heston comes down from the mountaintop, breaks the tablets on the rocks and reads the Israelites the riot act for worshipping false gods.

 

[f64manray]

It seems that I misunderstood, it appears that only the s35 Scarlet has had a name change the fix lens Scarlet may still exist after all. By the way there seems to be another name change. http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52245&page=44

As of now... we are considering:

EPIC-S (from the old Scarlet name... or STANDARD model)
EPIC-X
EPIC-M (for monster machined)

Does that work for everyone?

Jim

Alas, Epic Light. We hardly knew thee, and your gone. (Tear ...sniffle)

 

[greymog]

1. sorry for bad english
I wish RED success, because if they make what they promise for that price then Canon, Sony, Panasonic etc. have to reply more aggressive. And thats what me as a costumer need. Aggressive competition save yours money people. I just hope that bad distribution dont kill RED Epic.

+1. One of the most mature responses to any of red's decisions. It is true, good competition ultimately helps us. That's an angle I haven't been considering, thanks matoliki.

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Alas, Epic Light. We hardly knew thee, and your gone. (Tear ...sniffle)

Hahaha 'Things change. Count on it'... isn't that their mantra?

 

[Piolet]

Jannard just posted this today:

The changes made from Scarlet S35 to EPIC-S are significant. It used to be on the original Scarlet platform and we moved it to the more comprehensive EPIC platform a couple of months ago. Big differences. Manufacturing in the US will cost more than Asia... but prices in Asia have also risen quite a bit in the last year or so.

Our biggest problem was announcing the program with one set of circumstances, being late... and the world changed.

Jim

That pretty much confirms it to me that Epic Lite is a crippled Epic and that Scarlet S35 (on the separate, less expensive Scarlet platform) probably never existed as a mature design. They probably realized how late they were, scrapped the Scarlet S35 platform and just concentrated on the Epic platform.

Jannard said this happened a couple of months ago. It would have been nice to have let us know then, seeing as how big a change this is. There's no doubt in my mind now that the Scarlet S35 dream is dead.

There are red flags everywhere that major price increases are coming.

 

[PerroneFord]

Hahaha 'Things change. Count on it'... isn't that their mantra?

Exactly, and with good reason. They are trying to hit a VERY quickly moving target. At the blunt end of the market, where we have the likes of the HDSLRs, the formula is simple. A basic codec, a decent camera, interchangeable lenses, 24p/25p, and a smattering of features, and you've got yourself a camera that will sell if you price it right.

At the pointy end of the market, the target is MUCH harder. People who are prepared to pay $50k for a camera (or a dozen at that price) have choices. And resources. And if you don't hit that rapidly moving target with your released product, you won't sell any, or many. Certainly not enough to recoup costs.

I've never understood why people are mad at RED for making a BUSINESS decision. RED didn't want to get into low-margin, high volume sales. I can't blame anyone for that and quite frankly was surprised they were even bothering in the first place. Yes, I had interest in an S35 Scarlet. But I'm interesting in half a dozen other cameras also. So the Scarlet may not come to market. Big deal. Buy a used R1. Or a Sony F3, or an AF100, or a DSLR. Whatever suits your pocket. The world is rife with companies who've set about a path and had to retreat from it for one reason or another. RED isn't the first, and certainly won't be the last.

No point in getting mad. Just move it along.

 

[John Caballero]

No point in getting mad. Just move it along.

Only if it was that easy. Tell that to the folk making so many many plans in the suspended in limbo Scarletuser. They must be in a catatonic stage as we speak.

 

[Lyris]

Do we have any idea when we could *maybe* expect to see this camera?

 

[f64manray]

Only if it was that easy. Tell that to the folk making so many many plans in the suspended in limbo Scarletuser. They must be in a catatonic stage as we speak.

Actually, many of them seem to be cool with it. Every time Mr. Jannard comes up with stuff like this, they seem to get a chorus of posters that chime in with "Thank you for the price increase, Jim. May we have another?" or one of my favorites, "It's about time!"

I've just taken your dream and ground it into dust.

Thanks, Jim. It's about time! You Rock!

 

[Jay Birch]

RED didn't want to get into low-margin, high volume sales.

I'm sorry, but that is exactly what they wanted to get into.... 3K for $3k was all about low margin/high volume sales.
RED have got 2-3 years of free hype from these cheap "products".... I can see why people would get mad about having said products seemingly pulled from under their feet (even with the fail safe "subject to change" tagline).

Personally, I couldn't care until I need to shoot next year and go hunting for buy now buttons on various cameras.

 

[Piolet]

Actually, many of them seem to be cool with it. Every time Mr. Jannard comes up with stuff like this, they seem to get a chorus of posters that chime in with "Thank you for the price increase, Jim. May we have another?" or one of my favorites, "It's about time!"

I've just taken your dream and ground it into dust.

Thanks, Jim. It's about time! You Rock!

Hahaha!! This is awesome.

Seriously, I'm not picking on RED. I'm trying to be fair by analyzing their actions and comparing that to what you would reasonably expect another company or another person to do. In that regard, this whole episode has been a shame. Honestly, step back, think impartially, rationally and without emotion about RED's actions. It's simply not cool what they did. There's business, but there's also business ethics.

 

[yoclay]

Only if it was that easy. Tell that to the folk making so many many plans in the suspended in limbo Scarletuser. They must be in a catatonic stage as we speak.

Actually people have been telling them that for a long time.

 

[PerroneFord]

I'm sorry, but that is exactly what they wanted to get into.... 3K for $3k was all about low margin/high volume sales.

Yea, and then Jim came to his senses.. probably as he was browsing the aisles at Best Buy and looking at the cameras and listening to the questions the shoppers were asking...

RED have got 2-3 years of free hype from these cheap "products".... I can see why people would get mad about having said products seemingly pulled from under their feet (even with the fail safe "subject to change" tagline).

The hype was created by the masses. Not the company. Company says, "Hey we're coming up with a cool camera for cheap to compete with that stuff you're using now." Mass hysteria ensues. Company comes to their senses when they realize they are ill prepared to deal with the support call onslaught of "Hey, how do I edit my 3k footage in iMovie?" or "Hey, I took this lens off (2/3" Scarlet) but now my camera is broken... RED SUX!"

Personally, I couldn't care until I need to shoot next year and go hunting for buy now buttons on various cameras.

Exactly. And if people would hold their enthusiasm a bit until a product is actually shipping, none of this would be a problem. You don't market to buyers of $3000 cameras the way you market to buyers of $30k cameras. People who are about to drop major sums of money on what is sure to be a capital investment in their business, appreciate knowing something is coming 2 years out before they spend money. People who are in OUR market decide they want a camera Wednesday, and go get on Friday. It's a very different market.

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

The hype was created by the masses. Not the company. Company says, "Hey we're coming up with a cool camera for cheap to compete with that stuff you're using now." Mass hysteria ensues.

I wouldn't pass the buck that far. Red does just about everything they can to keep the hype machine running. Just about everything.