david dominguez
Well-known member
What are you some kinda RED fanboy?
Red Raven Official
- Thread starter traviswears
- Start date
What are you some kinda RED fanboy?
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
When you look at Cine glass and removing Panavision from the equation, anything at a rental house is 90% PL. Canon has been forcing it's inferior yet usable (face it, it is) mount on us since entering the space. This camera, for the most part, will be for shooters using photography glass and the few EF cinema lenses (CN-E, CP.2, etc.) They made this clear with their decision to do EF mount and the price point.
I'm in full agreement with those here that say a shorter flange for the native mount and high quality adapters would have been more ideal. Would have satisfied all lens users and been versatile. Of course I'm sure it's just one of many decisions to keep costs down.
Besides that and the smaller subS35mm FoV, it looks good. Not for me, but there will be many shooters out there who will like the EF Canon lens and Raven combo for their work.
Seems like a good deal and a competitive camera if you were in the market for say, a Canon C300mk II or something else with EF mount native.
My work is almost exclusively PL lenses like Ultra Primes, Cookes, Fujinon Cabrio, Angenieux, and etc. So I suppose I'll only fly Raven's on drones.
The OLPF is also non-interchangeable. I wonder what they will put in there. DP's I work with and myself think the Dragon skin-tone OLPF is less appealing than the low-light and that is even true in broad daylight. I hope they either do the Low-light or cook up something new and better. Can't say I am in love with the skin-tone OLPF.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
What are you people some kinda fanboys?
AndreeOnline
Veteran
Hi Ryan,
Indeed, the standard would be PL. I didn't mean it was a 50-50 thing. But when manufacturers add an additional mount to be an option for the masses, it's often EF. That's what I meant.
RED has a positive locking EF mount on their cameras, including the Raven. It's a twist ring that locks the lens in addition to the bayonet. There is zero play according to people who have tried it.
RED is splitting the difference between the LLO and STH and is now using a new mix called the Standard OLPF. It's supposed to be the best of both worlds (or a compromise between them) and that is the one that Raven gets.
Indeed, the standard would be PL. I didn't mean it was a 50-50 thing. But when manufacturers add an additional mount to be an option for the masses, it's often EF. That's what I meant.
RED has a positive locking EF mount on their cameras, including the Raven. It's a twist ring that locks the lens in addition to the bayonet. There is zero play according to people who have tried it.
RED is splitting the difference between the LLO and STH and is now using a new mix called the Standard OLPF. It's supposed to be the best of both worlds (or a compromise between them) and that is the one that Raven gets.
AndreeOnline
Veteran
Regarding the price of the modules I too think the prices are too high. I've tried to say as much too on Reduser in a semi constructive way. I'm not holding my breath for prices to come down, but they might going forward. RED likes to point out that they are not the only ones making addons. OffHollywood has a couple of things they will be releasing—specifically audio related if I understand correctly.
Regarding price: a shooting ready package is very close to $10k, if not below. If you want to add additional things that's up to you, but to start shooting the camera it's around $10k for a non RED user.
Regarding price: a shooting ready package is very close to $10k, if not below. If you want to add additional things that's up to you, but to start shooting the camera it's around $10k for a non RED user.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
Yes I have to give RED credit for seeing the need for the additional locking/tightening ring on the EF Mount. I have had nightmare play in C300 and CP.2 EF mount before.
Besides play, I was also talking about strength.
Good to hear about the OLPF, I hope they found the recipe to a good OLPF. I use the Low light OLPF when shooting Dragon. I would like eventually test those 3rd party OLPF's. I heard the 'Pearl'(?) OLPF's were used by Chris Probst on the Taylor Swift mVideo which he did an amazing job on.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
I can only assume you can adjust the sensor block in the camera right? Maybe it's a dump question but I am curious with the fixed mount, what else they downsized.
-ryan
-ryan
Surf it Mike
Well-known member
No you can't adjust OLPF or señor in Raven strictly a one way job @ the moment anyway.
LOL you can't adjust sensor either , IPad predictive text at its best ; )
LOL you can't adjust sensor either , IPad predictive text at its best ; )
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No. I think it's one of many decisions to keep the camera seperated from the others in terms of market strategy. The cost of an interchangeable mount is negligeable compared to the interest PL users would show. But that would eat the market share from their more expensive siblings. It is very clearly positioned as a drone solution and for a lower tier client and the EF mount insures that it will stay that way.
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starcentral
Veteran
I bought a Nikon to EOS adapter from China for under $19, I think a cheap Fotodiox PL to EOS adapter is $99.
I don't think the mount is a huge issue as much as the sensor size is. 20.48mm is a 1.76 crop factor which for me really would be a "deal breaker". But call me a super 35mm snob I guess.
The good thing about such a crop factor is you're only shooting through the center of any lens so even a cheap lens will "perform" well with less distortion and CA as you get closer to the edges.
I don't think the mount is a huge issue as much as the sensor size is. 20.48mm is a 1.76 crop factor which for me really would be a "deal breaker". But call me a super 35mm snob I guess.
The good thing about such a crop factor is you're only shooting through the center of any lens so even a cheap lens will "perform" well with less distortion and CA as you get closer to the edges.
Ryan Patrick O'Hara
Veteran
haha, gracias.
Are you sure about the sensor? If you do end up using the few EF Cinema lenses out there (CN-E, CP.2, etc) how do you make sure the marks read? Most camera mounts are either shimable or you can adjust the sensor block. For photography lenses this is something you really don't worry about as long as you hit infinity, but for focus pullers, it's another story... at least for those who still pull off distance.
Not defending the price of Redmags, but here is what Brent from RED Says about it:
"Two, we totally get the request on media. We spend months and months qualifying media for speed, reilabiity over time, the ability to handle our horsepower over long shoots without heating up so much you can fry an egg on them. It is not as simple as "the media option x can go fast enough for RED." We have a host of other requirements and plenty of media are fast enough, but just cannot check the other boxes."
"Two, we totally get the request on media. We spend months and months qualifying media for speed, reilabiity over time, the ability to handle our horsepower over long shoots without heating up so much you can fry an egg on them. It is not as simple as "the media option x can go fast enough for RED." We have a host of other requirements and plenty of media are fast enough, but just cannot check the other boxes."
Surf it Mike
Well-known member
Don't know with Raven but all current DSMC have a back focus adjustment screw located on the top of the camera. So I would assume same.
Ebrahim Saadawi
Carbonite Member
It's a 1.87x crop sensor, 1.9x is practically af100/gh2/3 m43s size, that's not a light issue for a 11-15K cinema camera especially with the current fierce competition from Sony and Canon at that bracket, both offer full s35 sensors with the same DOF/FOV as DPs are used to.
AF100: 19mm x 10.7mm (16:9)
Red Raven: 20.4mm x 10.8mm (17:9)
S35: 25mm x 14mm (16:9)
That needs to be clear, some will find it fine, some won't, just make sure you know it before ordering.
AF100: 19mm x 10.7mm (16:9)
Red Raven: 20.4mm x 10.8mm (17:9)
S35: 25mm x 14mm (16:9)
That needs to be clear, some will find it fine, some won't, just make sure you know it before ordering.
But he would say that, wouldn't he? Their "horsepower" is no different to anyone else's. If any well-know manufacturer certifies media for a given speed, then there is no reason to believe that that media is going to be prone to failure or overheating when used within those certified limits.
Data is data. It's just a stream of bits being written to a media device. There's nothing special about the data from a RED camera, despite the mystique of the marque.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Then why haven't third parties made media for them?
After all it must be so simple, right?
Because of licensing issues.
I don't know. I guess they would be on a hiding to nothing. If a third-party did come up with something, and RED suggested that it would be a bad idea to use it, then that would pretty much sink it, regardless of the tech specs. We're all naturally paranoid about the reliability of media, and I think RED play on that.
I don't know much about the ins and outs of the RED lineup, but from what I've seen even basic kit which just adds, for example, i/o, is really expensive. I find it more surprising that third-parties haven't made alternatives for those components.
Dafilman21
Carbonite Member
Third parties have come up with some of those components and more are on the way. RED is very transparent about that.
Camerapilot
Active member
This is really confusing. You compare the Raven sensor to FF to give the crop factor and then you say you're a S35 snob? Compared to S35, isn't the Raven sensor more like a 1.2?