RED ONE stabilizer

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Emanuel

Emanuel

Cross-Examiner
After some research, my best affordable bet by now as a dream (real too?) stabilizer for my RED ONE is this offer -- XTR 700 for cameras weighing from 17 up to 27 lbs (Hard Spring) and less than 17 lbs (Soft Spring); XTR 600 for capture devices weighing less than 14 lbs:

http://www.fishboneusa.com/Products/XTR.php


[EDIT] Charles Papert is referring $3,000 in his review: FOR MORE INFO >> CLICK HERE


Any thoughts?
 
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Aah yes, another contender into the field of Steadicam knock-offs. And this one has been getting some press recently.

CP gives it a prety decent review, thoguh he does mention some issues which are to expected from a rig at this price.

I look forward to trying the Fishbone at NAB myself.

Though I'm prety sure the Steadicam Flyer still has it beat hands down for overall performance. Especially the arm on the Flyer will kick this arm's butt any day, begining with the fact that the Flyer is a 2-section arm, and adding in that it's Iso elastic and tools' free adjustable. THhe rest looks prety much like a direct copy of the Flyer anyway, so I'll have to fly to it to tell the differences.

If it's sheer payload capacity and looks you are after with a rig, then the Basson stabilizer is worth looking at [hint: it's not very good]. But if you want a top notch rig that performs well, you will have to look more carefully at what really counts in a rig - and price insn't part of that, though it can be a good indicator sometimes as quality does tend to cost.

- Mikko
 
mikkowilson said:
If it's sheer payload capacity and looks you are after with a rig, then the Basson stabilizer is worth looking at.
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I leave here the link of the argentinan manufacturer*:

http://www.bassonsteady.com/shop/productos.asp?id=1

EDIT -- * News coming from Asia, South America... I believe to have these origins can be a competitive sign. The question is if it follows the competition in terms of quality.
 
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Emanuel said:
I leave here the link of the argentinan manufacturer*:

http://www.bassonsteady.com/shop/productos.asp?id=1
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Yeah, that's the one. Shady guys. They even photoshop the camera onto their rig for the press photos .. that allready says something to me. :undecided
I've never seen them at a tradeshow either so I haven't had the chance to test in person. Though I hear they are prety heavy and I've heard of some shotty work resulting in arms snapping clean off. ... But they are cheap!

On that note, remember what you are putting on a stabilizer. Make sure it's gear that you can trust.

- Mikko
 
Indeed. Maybe the best real affordable (but also surely guaranteed) will be the Glidecam offer. My bet would be the Smooth Shooter + 4000 Pro for a SLR light setup up to 10 lbs. Even if it seems short. Otherwise, the V16 can do the task. Although twice the price and without versatility for a future small cam use if necessary, as well.
 
I just read Charles Papert's review, and I didn't feel he was praising this new stabilizer, quite the opposite.
Here is the thing, everytime I have tried to save money on equipment by buying the "new thing" at half price, I always regret it, and I end up selling it back and buying the more expensive, but better built piece of equipment...
So at the end, if you are spending 17K for a camera and another 5 to 10K for lenses, why would you get a cheap stabilizer???
 
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Emanuel said:
My bet would be the Smooth Shooter + 4000 Pro for a SLR light setup up to 10 lbs.
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I think you're going to find it rather difficult to keep RED ONE at <10lbs. with any kind of decent lens, battery, and hard drive attached (and that's assuming no mattebox, wireless FF, etc.). Even if you're shooting with Nikons, I'd guess that all of that other stuff is going to push ~15lbs. as it is - and that makes me somewhat nervous as a Flyer owner/operator myself. I know that Jim & Co. are aware of the situation and are doing what they can to keep things mobile and light, but even knowing that, I think you're really going to be hoping too much for a 10lb. Red system to sit atop any kind of Steadicam (or knockoff) device.

The next one up from the Flyer is the Archer, I believe (didn't you get one yourself, Mikko?), but it's nearly three times the cost. With the money I'm scrounging up just to outfit myself with a decent RED system, that's just not an option. So here's to hoping it stays light! :)
 
Yup Haak! That's why I posted the V16 option. Unfortunately 'cause my goal would be in the 10 lbs range (SLR setup). However, following this Jim's post it seems possible considering he's referring the RED zoom lens:
Jannard said:
I think it is possible to be in the 15 lb. range with the zoom lens, battery and drive module (don't hold me to it)... but you have some time to get more info before you'll need to purchase.
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LINK
 
SomewhereinLA said:
Here is the thing, everytime I have tried to save money on equipment by buying the "new thing" at half price, I always regret it, and I end up selling it back and buying the more expensive, but better built piece of equipment...
So at the end, if you are spending 17K for a camera and another 5 to 10K for lenses, why would you get a cheap stabilizer???
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for the same reason you'd go w/ the genesis, F950, D20.. why are you reading the red subforum..?
 
It seems the Flyer will be perfect concerning to a SLR setup (and real[ly] indeed, beyond what our dreams could apparently insinuate), though it doesn't seem feasible in order to handle with the RED zoom lens. The 15 lbs seem short. For those who are searching for a versatile solution (that is, more than 15 lbs) -- and continuing the research, here is a french one:

http://www.laigleparis.fr/home.htm

The price is fair considering what offers and the competition. It seems doesn't have the HDSDI monitor feature but Jim already promised an unbeatable and removable sun´proof`(720p) LCD, isn't it?

EDIT -- Here is a full review (sorry it is only in french):

http://www.dvforever.com/article.php3?id_article=134
 
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Yeah, a lite RED ONE setup will work very nicly on the Flyer. Rest assured that the RED team is well aware of what it needs to do this.
A ~7lb RED one leaves space for a Follow Focus (~3lb) and still ~5lb of lens. The rig's battery and monitor don't count towards the weight limit of the camera as they are below the gimble.

Note that due to the lack of composite outputs on the RED, you would have to either use RED's own LCD, or get F-24, which is a 24volt version of the Flyer with a HD-SDI monitor and has cables for SDI down the post. You could also use an onboard downconverter, probabaly placed at the bottom of the sled in place of the 2nd battery.


Yes I do own a Steadicam Archer - the next model up from the Flyer - with a nominal max camera weight of around 23lbs, that's loads of room for a RED ONE with a nice set of accessories - of course not everything for a full studio setup, but that's the same case with film cameras and Steadicam.
I don't have a HD monitor on my Archer (yet), but there's loads of HD cables in the rig so that I can put a downconverter wherever I want, or just put a HD monitor on my rig when necesarry. Depending on the cables used for RED's LCD monitor (can you get it down to 3 coaxes guys?) I may even be able to use RED's LCD on my Archer without any external cables. Though a composite output on RED would still be a nice touch. :thumbsup:

Of course the bigger rigs up from there; Clipper, Vector and Ultra will all fly the RED too without any trouble.
I'd probabaly put the Archer and Clipper as the "Ideal" rigs for RED, but it's very exciting that RED will surly be very flyable on the Flyer too!


For those planning on running out and picking up *any* stabilizer for their new RED; keep in mind that Steadicam is an art form that takes a long time to master. Years to even become proficient, let alone "good". It's quite literally a profession of it's own for a reason.
If you are serious enough to be shooting with RED, you are serious enough that you should be aware that hiring a professional Steadicam Operator is the best way to get good Steadicam shots for your production. Running out and grabbing a V16 or an Eagle to stick your new prize camera on isn't really a good idea however you look at it.

- Mikko
 
There's a reason Steadicam is king - it's all about the micro adjustments. As one who wasted way too much time trying to get a lesser-quality rig in dynamic balance (45+ minutes each and every time, isn't that fun?), I genuflect at Garret's altar because he has simply nailed the art and science of the whole widget. Gone are the days when I thought that saving a buck was worth losing a minute of my time.
 
I must just be a fast learner. After a few months of practice with a hand-held sled I have been getting some terrific shots. -And I'm fussy by all accounts.
I figure that as long as you have a high quality gimbal, are correctly balanced, the load is manageable (and RED prob is with lightweight still lens), and you are free of any other prohibitive conditions, you can consistently achieve these results.
Your own arm is a highly sophisticated device. It can support a full cup of liquid whilst you are driven over a bumpy road without spilling a drop. Show me an articulated mechanical arm that can do that. Not sure if it'll work for everyone but it does for me.
 
I was able to obtain my mega low friction gimbal from my brothers work. This makes a big difference over a cheapie one. I also have an excellent wrist support. Just hope Red isn't too heavy.
 
Blue said:
Your own arm is a highly sophisticated device. It can support a full cup of liquid whilst you are driven over a bumpy road without spilling a drop. Show me an articulated mechanical arm that can do that.
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That is exactly what a Steadicam arm does.

And for a lighter camera your own arm is plenty, but once the camera starts getting heavy - over about 5lb - your start to overload your arm's natural abilities which will cost you stability.

- Mikko
 
Regarding the Fishbone stabilizer: I made every attempt in that review to be open-minded about the device and approach it considering its intended target market, which I am not. I have read in many places on the web about satisfied owners of nearly every brand of stabilizer, including those that I consider to be barely functional, and thus I was reluctant to stamp the rig with a "not acceptable" branding, although as far as I'm concerned that is the case.

I don't know if I believe that it is entirely logical for someone who is investing in RED to only consider the top-end stabilizers, as they may be so financially strapped from their camera and lens purchases that they just want to be able to move from point a to point b without footsteps in the shot, without it costing another $10K or more. It wasn't that long ago that owning a stabilizer of any kind was an extremely exotic concept anyway, so even the idea of being able to fly a camera with these capabilities for this price range is just confounding.

To all those who are developing their spending budgets and plan to use their REDs with 35mm lenses and stabilizers...don't forget that you will need wireless focus controls at the very least (and if you are ever going to do exterior work that spins around more than 90 degrees and/or travels inside, you'll need an iris channel as well) and that is currently around $4K per channel. This is really not optional, unless you intend to work at T8 or more as well as no longer than 40mm or so. You simply cannot "set and forget" focus with this level of resolution.

The bottom line with all of this is that everyone has different levels of expectation. A given stabilizer that may be deemed "junk" by an experienced operator is the Holy Grail for a cash-poor newbie.
 
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