Red lenses

D_and_G. Your numbers look about right. I think what's useful about this thread is to get people seriously exploring lens options sooner rather than later. I suspect that the demand and prices for used Zeiss primes will take a bounce as the delivery date of the first batch of RED cameras approaches. Now is the time to carefully consider what you will need. Then start shopping. Make sure you budget to have any used lenses checked out by a qualified lens service tech before you buy. And caveat emptor when you buy on ebay (although this can be an excellent source). Buying used from a rental house is the best bet because you can be certain that the lenses have been well-maintained.
 
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luisbustamante said:
Thanks for the answer, Greg. So, if you can buy the Zeiss lenses without a mount, does that means you can fit a PL mount into it? Is it that simple?
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I'm not aware of anyone with PL adapters for the Zeiss lenses yet, but they're no doubt in the works somewhere. In addition to PL mounts, they'll need proper focus and aperture ring gears.

The Zeiss website mentions only the ZF mount (Nikon) but I have read elsewhere that the lenses will be available without a specific mount. There's only a 50 mm/1.4 and an 85 mm/1.4 available now with more to be announced at Photokina in September. Zeiss also makes lenses for Contax cameras so those lenses may be useful too. As the ZF and Contax lenses are intended for still cameras, the wide angles won't be so wide on a S35 sensor, but hopefully the range will be expanded over time.

If I were RED, I'd be focused on those lenses as an excellent interim solution for budget-conscious customers.

I believe Band Pro has the US distribution rights to the new Zeiss lenses. I heard this unofficially. The lenses aren't on Band Pro's website yet.

Another source of PL mount still camera lenses is Century Precision Optics (now part of Schneider Optics). Century already has many PL mount still camera lenses including "compact" zooms and telephotos (including a 300mm T3 which is a remounted Canon).

The Century/Schneider website lists the remounted lenses they supply, but it looks like the site is under construction as it's short on photos and details. http://www.schneideroptics.com/
 
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D_and_G said:
...I think many of us are trying to come up with a budget and explore ALL the options, so when the camera comes we will at least have a hand hold on expenses and workflow - although there will be tons more research and testing needed to be done.
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Yes! I am stumbling along but this is exacty what I am trying to get my head around.

Greg Lowry said:
I think what's useful about this thread is to get people seriously exploring lens options sooner rather than later. I suspect that the demand and prices for used Zeiss primes will take a bounce as the delivery date of the first batch of RED cameras approaches. Now is the time to carefully consider what you will need. Then start shopping. Make sure you budget to have any used lenses checked out by a qualified lens service tech before you buy. And caveat emptor when you buy on e-bay (although this can be an excellent source).
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I guess I didn't ask it very well in my other thread but this is the decision I am trying to make earlier rather than later. Thanks Greg!
 
Wow good stuff here! I like others am in the same boat. Already have a tripod and microphone, that I think will work well with the red camera. however After I spend 20k for the camera, that does not leave me a boat load of cash left over for glass!

Option 1: Save my money, and wait for Red to come out with, a good zoom lens, at a fair price.

Option 2: Buy 3 used primes at about 3k each. Question: I never worked with 35mm before. If I was to start with only 3 primes, what would be the best sizes to start off with and why?

Option 3: Forget the hole thing and go take a nap.....Is there another option?
 
Naps are always good.

If I were to choose only three lenses for the S35 format they would be Zeiss 25mm, 35mm (or 50mm), and an 85mm. Depending on the series, either T1.3, T1.4 or T2.1. Of course your needs depend on the kind of shooting you do. Some great movies have been made with only one or two different focal lengths. Most of the movie "Being There" was shot with a single 29mm lens with one or two closeups shot with a 40mm. The discipline of using prime lenses will make you a better cinematographer. Your footage will cut together better too. But if you do mostly documentary work you probably won't be using the full sensor so you should be considering a good S-16 zoom like the Zeiss 11-110.

Here are a few links I found to used lenses. Be careful not to confuse the 16mm with the 35 mm format lenses.

http://www.cinematechnic.com/products/sales_lenses.html

http://www.visualproducts.com/store02.asp?ID=8

http://www.miamifilm.com/lenses1.html

http://www.rarecamerainc.com/group/GrpId16.htm

http://www.cinevision-ny.com/salesinfo/sales.htm

http://www.fvesco.com/used_equip/used_film.htm
 
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Greg Lowry,

Thank you much. And Yes cinema is the plan for the camera. Valued input. And thank you for the links .....Some good prices on some :)
 
Greg Lowry said:
Context is everything. A fully loaded RED at $30k, $40k or $50k looks like a bargain compared to high-end cameras where it's possible to spend $60k-$120k for a camera body and $100,000+ just for lenses. I think that's how many purchasers look at it. You're coming at it from the other direction. Everything that has happened so far indicates that RED has a very broad market in mind.
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The context isn't everything. A fully loaded RED at $30k, $40k or $50k looks like an impossibility compared to high-end cameras where it's impossible to spend $60k-$120k for a camera body and $100,000+ just for lenses. I think that's how many purchasers look at it. You're coming at it from the other direction. Everything that has happened so far indicates that RED has a very broad market in mind.
 
In looking through some of the used lens sites, I remembered another good choice for S35 lenses. The Canon K35 series (18, 25, 35, 50 and 85 if I recall correctly -- all T1.4 except the 18 that was T1.6 I think) -- circa mid 1970s -- are really excellent lenses. I used them for 35mm work back in the early 80s. 1970s lenses may seem ancient, but a well-maintained set will still deliver great images. I'm sure these lenses are still in use at some rental houses. Some of the low-light Irish exterior (non-candlelight) scenes in Barry Lyndon were shot with those Canons. Canon also made a companion 25-125 zoom that was good too. I used them all. There were originally BNCR mount, but i note that the can be converted to PL mount. Highly recommended if in good condition.
 
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I agree with you Greg.. People are going to have to get used to the fact this stuff is going to cost money.. We're talking about PROFESSIONAL equipment. Filmmaker you need to get your demographic straight. We're talking about the broad market of people who are used to dropping $30 - $40k (Pana SDX900) for a camera but cannot reach the $65 - $100k range of the varicam. This camera is not meant for hobbyist, ok perhaps the rich ones. Pros who make a living shooting will be the ones grabbing this camera and I dare say not to many DVX users either. There will be some, but we're a long way from $6,000.00. A profrssional who makes enough to pay for his investement in two years and STILL make a decent living will be the camera's customer of choice. There are, of course, exceptions, but this will be the camera's main base. The other popular client will be small independant production companies who do enough work to make back what they would pay in rental for a camera not even as good as a RED. Of course for them to be interested RED will have to work very well with things like Final Cut Pro.

My feeling for RED is EXACTLY as Greg described it: I look at RED as a bargain when comparing similar technologies for $65K and up (And we're talking camera body only for that 65K)

Jay
 
I think that RED will be flexible enough. Although the expensive accessories will be reachable only by the rich (or succesful), at a total cost of about 20k it should be useable, at least for 1080p, with much better quality than HDV, using a good SLR 35mm manual lens.

Of course the rich boys will take pictures of their rigs with every possible accessory on it, just to make the rest of us jealous! :huh:

Just crossed my mind ..it's like buying a Porsche with just an AM radio, no air-conditioning and cotton seats! ...still, you'll have a Porsche! :D
 
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please don't look at cine lens as all or nothing !!
for those that cannot afford cine lens now there will be still lens mount.
so you buy 35mm still lens - there was/is nothing wrong with those lens 25, 20,15, 10,5 years ago for still photo and they'll serve very well/good on a RED .. come on your new RED has a 35mm sensor in it = 35mm DoF ..
you work with what you got !!! down the line you rent cine lens when you need or you buy when you can afford ...
i'll choose a 80-200mm F 2.8 & 28-70mm F2.8 nikor ( use as a variable prime not zooming) over a cooke 25-250 on a 16mm or 35mm Aaton 80% of the time ...
i'm no so sure that most here know the size/weight of a 18-100 or 25-250 cooke/angeniux ... you really have to see these lens to really "get" their size..

IMO a RED with any good still lens is going to to look good !!

again buy what you can afford !!!
 
donatello, if you read this (admittedly lengthy) thread you would see that a considerable part of the discussion is indeed about using remounted still camera lenses. While still camera lenses are indeed an option, in my experience lenses designed for a specific format perform best. Most 35mm still camera lenses are not as well built mechanically as cine lenses. They can tend to get a bit sloppy with heavy use and the the additional stresses of a mechanical follow focus system. But they can be an excellent compromise for those who can't afford cine lenses. It's a matter of making an informed decision. Intelligent compromise is usual part of that process. It's good to know all the options.
 
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my good fellows greg and jay, besides my joke or provocative input what i meant to say it was already posted by proteus and don..

and despite your good will, the fact is there isn't "the" PROFESSIONAL..

but several sort of shooters, professionals and so on.. why not?

so please don't reduce the RED world to black & white, ok?
 
On the subject of sales volume of high end lenses, apparently 1000+ Zeiss Digiprime lenses have been sold since the lenses were introduced about 4 years ago. There are currently 8 focal lengths in the prime range and two zooms. If memory serves, each prime is $15k-$20k. Draw your own conclusions.
 
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filmmaker, my good man (tips hat goodnaturedly), I believe I wrote: "Everything that has happened so far indicates that RED has a very broad market in mind."

I haven't reduced the market to single "sort of shooter". All I have done is provide a little information. What's done with it or how it's interpreted isn't up to me. I particularly take no responsibility for how you interpret what I write as you either don't grasp what you read or don't even bother to read the posts before your reply.

As for the "rainbow" world of RED, perhaps you'd prefer if we don't discuss anything at all, lest your delicate sensibilities be offended.
 
ok.. do you want a numbers war?.. :D

take this:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=488048&postcount=40

«It says that Canon has now produced 30 million EF lenses! 10 million of those lenses were made in just the last 5 years (probably due to the DSLR craze). That's an amazing amount of product and it really tells you something about economies of scale.»

don't you care about this point? i care!

do you want to know other professionals with this point?

besides don (you already know), i can add others like:

Robert Jackson.. this man is working since more than two decades in cinematography.. dealing with PL mount lenses.. he knows what he's talking about.. seriously

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=486357&postcount=7

and so on.. follow the thread..

this was also discussed before among us and the results are here:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=58282

besides Tim L Ne, Robert Jackson or donatello, we have supporting this goal people like:

Evin Grant (evinsky here), taubkin, Emanuel, Mathieu Kassovitz.. are you familiar with THESE names?..

it matters.. because we don't want to go back.. and it's relevant to protect what we believe it must happen and Jim Jannard cannot forget..
 
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Greg Lowry said:
filmmaker, my good man (tips hat goodnaturedly), I believe I wrote: "Everything that has happened so far indicates that RED has a very broad market in mind."

I haven't reduced the market to single "sort of shooter". All I have done is provide a little information. What's done with it or how it's interpreted isn't up to me. I particularly take no responsibility for how you interpret what I write as you either don't grasp what you read or don't even bother to read the posts before your reply.

As for the "rainbow" world of RED, perhaps you'd prefer if we don't discuss anything at all, lest your delicate sensibilities be offended.
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although my non-native english, i understand very well ALL the written english and if i wished to play with your words it was precisely i thought that would be possible to extract from your own thoughts a substantial concordance with our beliefs besides your rainbow.
 
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