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Finner

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Hi I left on holidays Nov. 15th (Just after David Stumps tests and the LA RED screening test.) and have been trying to find out more detailed info and conclusions on Davids tests and can't seem to find much here or on cinematography.net.

Any info on where I can learn more about the tests would be appreciated, also I would appreciate any info on what new things with RED have taken place in the time I was away.

Thanks
 
believe it or not, as far as I can tell, very little of note has been said publically since that time. One presumes the Red team is focusing on development vs. posting online.
 
Yeah, I'm a little suprised myself - I don't know what happened with Dave Stump's analysis - there are test images publicly posted, but not too much was said about'em. Red said something about a re-test being in order since they'd figured out how to do something better, but then nothing since then.

I published a couple of interviews after that time:

with Ted on camera and schedules: http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/11/hd4nds-big-red-update-exclusive.html

with Graeme and Stuart on workflow and formats: http://www.hdforindies.com/2006/11/hd4nds-exclusive-big-red-update-part-2.html

-mike
 
I don't quite understand why David Stumps analysis has not come out? Was not his opinion on this test the main reason for the test?

The test was quite a while ago and I thought for sure after I got back from being away from my holiday that detailed information and much discussion would have taken place.

Maybe David has been to busy to write up his findings but is no one else concerned that the detalied test analysis has not yet come forward?
 
Finner said:
I don't quite understand why David Stumps analysis has not come out? Was not his opinion on this test the main reason for the test?
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Hi Finner,

I think David Stump was asked to test the camera, so the tests results would be fair and trusted by other DP's.

His tests can be compared with other cameras available on CML's site, an opinion is therefore not needed. I am sure a finished camera will be tested and the results posted on CML.

FWIW there was some discussion on CLM, JJ has asked David to come and repeat the tests.

Just my 2c

Stephen
 
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I'm guessing here.....from what I can see does that mean that the Red One is clipping about the same point as an F950?

This looks like the greatest lattitue belongs to a D20, then the Viper and Canon. Red and F950 seem to be the first to clip the highlights. Suprising as you might think the Red could deliver similar lattitude to the top end SLRs.

There's still work to do thought from what I've read so this may be very premature.

EDIT, actually thats really hard to read as the coloumn is reading in density and they seem to flatten out at 250.... so i give up, Im out of my depth....
 
My interpretation is:

Red Frankie 8 stops
Silicon Imaging SI-2K mini 9 stops
Canon XL H1 10 stops
Sony F950 10 stops
Thomson Viper 11.5 stops
Arri D20 12 stops

That is just how I read Geoffs chart. I think it is premature to read anything into this as it relates to RedOne, but it is pertinent to an evaluation of the images which exist from Frankie.

Martin
 
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The problem with our open book policy is that every aspect of development is available for scrutiny. David Stump has already commented that there is more latitude available from the RED camera with some characterization of the sensor and sensor setting adjustments. We have already seen an improvement to 11 stops. And we think there is still more available. We have had months to do what others have had years to work on. Give us a few more minutes and we will be happy to sit side by side any camera for a full comparison test under the same conditions.

Jim
 
You are the Frog under the wells, and please spend some time to read the CML, and you have not seen anything yet.

Even I am CHINESE in my Home Kingdom in CHINA ( HK in CHINA ) Not UK anymore.
 
You gotta be a little careful reading film charts like this because the sensitivity curve its reflecting is relying on a few things that Red has may not be accurate.. one being the ISO of the camera that Geoff shifted, David pegged rated the ISO of the sensor at 200 when in further testing the camera is rated slightly higher, as David has mentioned that he could of exposed both ways a little more, so the ISO shift Geoff did to get from that rated 200 to the rest of the cameras 320 would be a little different, and give much different results.

Remember as well, we discovered some sensor sensitivity modifications a few days after the tests and if you remember one of Jim's eureka posts a few weeks ago Graeme found some more latitude room in his algorithms, both which should provide better results that hopefully David can be re-testing rather soon.

It would of been "polite" for Geoff to put a "Red in Development" on that chart somewhere.... ditto with the SI. because things have improved as expected... its fine to put a prototype camera up against an array of shipping cameras, as long as you make sure everyone knows.
 
The Whole CHINA ( 103 billion sof people ) knows about the RED 's F22 stops conducted the tests by Mr. David Stump ASC, Chairman of the ASC, Camera Committe.
 
Jarred Land said:
You gotta be a little careful reading film charts like this because the sensitivity curve its reflecting is relying on a few things that Red has may not be accurate.. one being the ISO of the camera that Geoff shifted, David pegged rated the ISO of the sensor at 200 when in further testing the camera is rated slightly higher, as David has mentioned that he could of exposed both ways a little more, so the ISO shift Geoff did to get from that rated 200 to the rest of the cameras 320 would be a little different, and give much different results.

Remember as well, we discovered some sensor sensitivity modifications a few days after the tests and if you remember one of Jim's eureka posts a few weeks ago Graeme found some more latitude room in his algorithms, both which should provide better results that hopefully David can be re-testing rather soon.

It would of been "polite" for Geoff to put a "Red in Development" on that chart somewhere.... ditto with the SI. because things have improved as expected... its fine to put a prototype camera up against an array of shipping cameras, as long as you make sure everyone knows.
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If further improvements are found to be possible AFTER it ships, will we be able to see adjustments via bios updgrades, or will it require hard physical tweaking...?
 
f92mlu said:
Hi Stephen!

Can you please explain those results for a beginner?

/Marcus
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yeah.. i'd like to see these cinematography.com or .net forums guys testing their skills with a script..

a shooting script.. :huh:

some actors.. and their moods.. :birthdays:

an edit decision list.. with real shots not just numbers.. :violent5:

raising funds.. or just trying to get it.. :embarasse

producing.. and paying the bills.. :evil:


:violin:
 
ARRI can not close to their F. Stop down to F22, and I was the 1st guy to open up the D-20 workshop in IVE - Kwun Tong Kowloon - HK back in 2005 before their tests in CHINA.

tell us the charts with tests so we can believe, and Mr. David Stump has donehis tests where were the others ? Did they post anything to prove to us ?
 
Besides, a chart like that say nothing about each camera's "useable latitude":

The lower areas of the curves are effected to a greater or lesser degree by noise, this varied considerably from camera to camera.
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So, really what does this table mean? White clipping is a fine measure, but deciding where the toe lies in a chart like this might be difficult, especially in digital cameras!

yeah.. i'd like to see these cinematography.com or .net forums guys testing their skills with a script..
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Why? they are cinematographers, not screenwriters or producers. They test the gear availiable to them to better use it when they have to. And testing means numbers and images. I do it too. I read about technology, and want to see test images and numbers, sometimes.

Cheers!
 
Let's set the date some time at NAB 2007 so all of us in the world in Las Vegas to witness the FACTS.

May I be a reporter for Greater CHINA in ASIA for some people ( 2-3 billion of people including India of Course )
 
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