F5: Reams F5??

Thanks Dennis, much appreciated. FYI -Greg's warranty expired 5 months ago and his karma is already shot. Good thing I have good karma though ;-)
 
I've been playing around with some 4k XAVC from the F55, comparing it with Paul's posted 4K samples, and my own SR444 files from the camera - and I have to say, I don't really get what the hype is about image-wise. Yes 4K internal would help me sell the camera to Producers more readily, but visually it's mush.

I have serious doubts that the resolution of the 4K XAVC actually exceeds that of 1080p SR444 - compression artifacts seem to eat up the detail too thoroughly.

I think I'll keep holding out (and wishing for) 12-bit 2K ProRes4444 with the upgrade board - that's a recording mode that would genuinely improve the camera for me (though 4k will definitely help sell it).
 
Grug said:
I have serious doubts that the resolution of the 4K XAVC actually exceeds that of 1080p SR444 - compression artifacts seem to eat up the detail too thoroughly.
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Lenses come much more into play. I myself found that my new Zeiss compact zooms made for MUCH better 4K than my Red 18-50 and 50-150. MUCH better.

Paul Ream's F5 4K posting is indeed mushy in spots, between whatever lens he used and the Vimeo compression. Some of his frame edges are very, very soft, especially the left side. I had a Tamron 17-55 that did this.

I can see the compression in the 4K XAVC, but it does have much more going on than 1080p when everything else is up to standards.

In general, over a year ago when starting to play with the 4K XAVC I was initially disappointed because the compression comes through more than the 1080 formats. But in 2 years, when we're being asked to do 4K and quick turnaround, it will be just what the doctor ordered. 4K that has to look as good as possible can get the R5.
 
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Nate Weaver said:
I personally think Sony will either ignore this or even open it up, they just have to figure out how to "save face". It will drive F5 sales for another 12-18 months if they just let it go...
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The lack of playback or monitoring is a pain, but it looks good on my F5 in 25P. 60fps S&Q also works.
 
No professional producer would rent/depend on a hacked camera for any project with a budget bigger than pittance. The risks are just too great when camera rental rates are just a fraction of the total cost of production - and the lack of playback compounds those risks greatly.

This hack is strictly for amateurs and experimenters, sorry.
 
starcentral said:
...but as for the podcast itself what gets me is how two guys can go on an on with the frame of mind that they have been "done by" by buying a camera knowing exactly what it will do out of the box.

What about those who bought the F55 for $12k more? Who's "done by" now?
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That was exactly the point I was making... not that I felt entitled to anything extra for my F5, but that Sony had failed to protect your investment in your F55 !!!

When I bought an F3 I paid a large sum for the S-Log upgrade - only for Sony to give it away for free 2 months later.

This can't be a good way to market products to professional people? That's the discussion I wanted to start...
 
It's the same when Sony pumps out cameras that makes the older one obsolete in many owners mind. I would recommend users to buy used and stay away from getting the latest. At least when it comes to cameras.

Canon has another way of approacing customers and value seems to stay at a higher level during a products three year life cycle until the next generation comes.

Buying the latest and you are bound to loose much on it. I've done it many times but I now know how to steer clear of that.
 
PaulReam said:
That was exactly the point I was making... not that I felt entitled to anything extra for my F5, but that Sony had failed to protect your investment in your F55 !!!

When I bought an F3 I paid a large sum for the S-Log upgrade - only for Sony to give it away for free 2 months later.

This can't be a good way to market products to professional people? That's the discussion I wanted to start...
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Sorry if I misunderstood your position on it then. In that vain I agree.
 
starcentral said:
vein vs vane vs vain is an interesting discussion point. I read some UK English websites which say "vain" is correct, but I also read on other is is "vein".
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It's "vein" - http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/in+that+vein.html - when the word is used in that context.

I think it comes from an old meaning of that spelling where "vein" means "a humor or mood, natural tendency", not the more common meaning of that spelling meaning a blood vessel. "Vein" can also take on a meaning of "track or pathway", so the saying is basically saying "following the same path".

Used after "same" it has to be a noun - which "vein" is, but "vain" isn't.
 
vein is correct, vane is a "weather vane" and vain is when you think too much of yourself, much clearer than the discussions about the legal implications of people messing with their F5's which they can do until their heart's content and tell anyone they want about it unless they have signed a nondisclosure agreement...
 
ryaninoz said:
I wonder if Sony close this loophole with a firmware update, pretty bad PR if they do though.
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WHY? It will revive the F5 sales and the actual image quality won't threaten the F55. They won't be held responsible to the F55 owners because they did not do it and don't have to honor warranty. It doesn't get much better than that in the business world ;-)
Someone did Sony a big favor....
 
With the help of an F55 owner, I’m looking at what other functionality we can change with this .ALL files file. As well as 4K monitoring and playback, it looks like there’s a lot of other settings we can alter including gain and gamma?


Now it’s out there… I hoping other people test for better tweaks…
 
PaulReam said:
With the help of an F55 owner, I’m looking at what other functionality we can change with this .ALL files file. As well as 4K monitoring and playback, it looks like there’s a lot of other settings we can alter including gain and gamma?


Now it’s out there… I hoping other people test for better tweaks…
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Download firmware 4.11 from Sony website in case they will disable it. It is very strange, shouldn't they break the link after this hack emerged? It's like they let people do it.
Line 126 looks like it could be for monitoring. Change every single setting one a camera at once, save it, and compare with a unchanged one to eliminate all not interesting options. Who knows what's there more :)
 
I'm sure that they will the loophole but then offer it as a paid upgrade. If I had an F5 and wanted to use this on a paying gig, then I'd want an official release from sony that had playback etc.
As an F55 owner this doesn't bother me at all. The global shutter and the extended color gamut are the reasons that I went with the 55 in the first place.
 
LowDown said:
The global shutter and the extended color gamut are the reasons that I went with the 55 in the first place.
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I agree, those are pretty important in terms of the quality of the image. The latter really undercuts an even more expensive camera - the F65.
 
Sony just issued a statement about enabling 4K on the F5 - basically just saying warranty won't be covered and performance not guaranteed., yadda yadda yadda

It seems this loop hole will become disabled functionality by the next major firmware update.

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/F5-All-File-modification-Sony-response/m-p/435340#U435340

Others will disagree but this was the right thing to do by Sony. I'm just more releived this wasn't some stunt to release 4K for free on the F5...

Having said that I think 18-24 months into a product lifecycle is long enough to eventually just release a "4K internal only" upgrade at some reasonable cost. The $17k to turn it into an F55 is just too steep and not everyone wants those F55 features anyways.
 
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