F5: Reams F5??

brilliant! so simple. Nate was on the money with his guess, the ALL file change is all it was.

Amazing, this just confirms Major manufacturers disable features that are fully available on lower models for market placement reasons, and to protect higher models that they can charge a bigger premium on.
I can dig the idea that sony need to make a profit, but they should've just charged for the upgrade to the global/sgamut sensor for like 5k or so. Even the GH4 has internal 4K, its something that shoulve been available on a cinealta high end camera. The F5 is by no means a cheap camera.

Sony's bad, F55 adopters would be feeling cheated by this, as they spent 15k spent more, and difference is even narrower than publicised, leaving only global shutter, Sgamut colour, and 4k SDI out <-(which might actually be available now with this trick, who knows, someone should test)
 
Jusgorilla said:
Sony's bad, F55 adopters would be feeling cheated by this, as they spent 15k spent more, and difference is even narrower than publicised, leaving only global shutter, Sgamut colour, and 4k SDI out <-(which might actually be available now with this trick, who knows, someone should test)
Click to expand...

Global shutter and S-gamut are still big things.

My headphones aren't working. Am I correct in assuming it's installing the F55 firmware on the F5?
 
Jusgorilla said:
Sony's bad, F55 adopters would be feeling cheated by this, as they spent 15k spent more, and difference is even narrower than publicised, leaving only global shutter, Sgamut colour, and 4k SDI out <-(which might actually be available now with this trick, who knows, someone should test)
Click to expand...

Someone else surely would have figured this already, or has and didn't say anything, but as for the podcast itself what gets me is how two guys can go on an on with the frame of mind that they have been "done by" by buying a camera knowing exactly what it will do out of the box.

What about those who bought the F55 for $12k more? Who's "done by" now?
 
Duke M. said:
Global shutter and S-gamut are still big things.

My headphones aren't working. Am I correct in assuming it's installing the F55 firmware on the F5?
Click to expand...

True dat! I WISH i had the global shutter and Sgamut, trust.

No, not firmware. A simple "ALL file" settings adjustment with text editor to enable the 4K.

The link for the instructions are in the podcast, its only accessible by typing the link in the browser: http://extrashot.co.uk , then forward slash " howwedidit " (minus the quotation marks of course)
 
Dear Sony, plz get out of this with your head up high!

First off: I'm a Sony Guy. Had an FX1, Ex1, F3 and now F55 and loved/love all of them.

But this is a nightmare.
What's going on lately?
The paid upgrade for the F3 turned out to be marketing nightmare.
The whole FS700 OdysseyQ Thing was a nightmare for F5ers
And now this?

To be clear: i don't mind if the new Prosumer Cam coming will have 4k60...
that's business! every 2 years cameras get released with uberspecs.
that's what we have to deal with.

But marketing - wonderful - cameras as being different, only to realise that you
have been tricked with 2 out of 4 distinguishing features is a slap in the face.
And an expensive one.

Let's recap:
Color Gamut - still in place
Gobal Shutter - still in place (and wonderful)
120fps vs 180fps - gone
4k internally - gone (it's out and as we have decent F5/55 firmware on cameras closing this loophole via V5 is merely impossible)

Come on Sony.
Don't make the same mistake Canon made with Magic Lantern.

Go out there and say simply Sorry.
Sorry, we made a mistake. We value our Customers.
Dear F5ers, have the 4k internally officially with V5 and enjoy!
Dear F55ers, thanks for your upfront investment. As a reward you can have a
Raw Recorder Package at a special Price / Or Viewfinder / Or Lens Set.

Don't burry your heads!!! It undermines loyalty. Big Time.

You have wonderful products. Products that Competition can't keep put with (Pana, JVC)
But in the end they have to be bought.

Again, i don't mind NEW cameras to have specs i wished for 2 Years ago at half the price.
But tricking us is really really bad marketing and image.

Don't make those wonderful cameras be remembered like this!
 
Hey Dennis,

yep, the damage is done.
but i think adressing this with firmware update will not do the trick,
because if i had a F5 i simply wouldn't update.
The features missing are really minor compared to having 4k internally.

Yes, all that have already bought would be burnt with my proposal,
but at least Sony would amend the situation as much as possible.

Who will pay 15.000.- now for a Hardware Upgrade now?
No CameraOwner/Operator anymore.

Still i think that there are many F55ers out there who would gladly purchase
something of the F5/55 Range when presented with a serious discount.
Meaning Sony could make money - even if less - with owners who didn't get everything in the first place...

I don't think that everyone (F55er) has a Raw Recorder.
And i don't think that everyone hast an OLED or 7inch Monitor
And certainly not everybody has a Cinealta Prime Lens set...

So there'd be something worth considering for everyone -
even if they already own one piece of that proposal

And again, i want Sony to get out of this as best as possible.
 
Hey,

i think that is due to the fact that Sony didn't think Operators would buy an F55.
When i was at IBC last year i spoke to the designer of the cam, and he really was
surprised that a small shop would buy one...
 
alohype said:
I do not own F5/55 but it might be the matter of memory card, not camera it self. So maybe if you put file from F55 in 4K on memory card it recognises it and switch to 4K (similar like when card is formatted to either ntsc or pal). Let's not get excited, wait for that podcast.
Click to expand...
alohype said:
Can anyone upload all the files present on memory card after formatting it in F5 as well as F55? I will take a look at the structure and code inside (I am a programmer). Please remember to include dot files as well.
Click to expand...

So solution is exactly what I thought and was predicting.

If someone would upload it you would know faster ;P
 
starcentral said:
My mentality always has been and still is that if I wanted a BMW I would have bought a BMW, not a Volkswagen and then expected it to perform like a BMW.
Click to expand...

In the case of the F5/F55 its more of buying pretty much the same car bodystyle with some higher end features separating models (heated seats, awd etc) but different HP stats only to discover that they have the same engine but one has a electronic restrictor on it. Take it to the shop they tune the computer and voila we have the same HP on both cars and now just a few features seperate the models. Some are happy to have paid more for those and some aren't.

This happens all the time in the car world with tuners.
 
Yes I agree and many many manufacturers do this all the time with product XYZ. But I really think this is a different issue / argument all together. Just because its there doesn't change the fact that you bought camera X on its paper specs - and these days more and more everything really does boil down to firmware not so much the hardware.

Trust me, even if Sony decided to manufacture one slightly different board inside the F5 as the "differentiator" people would still cry to enable F55 or F65 feature-set.

Too bad I didn't stick with my first decision on the F5. Guess I learned a $12,000 lesson.

tisk tisk shame on me.
 
starcentral said:
Yes I agree and many many manufacturers do this all the time with product XYZ. But I really think this is a different issue / argument all together. Just because its there doesn't change the fact that you bought camera X on its paper specs - and these days more and more everything really does boil down to firmware not so much the hardware.

Trust me, even if Sony decided to manufacture one slightly different board inside the F5 as the "differentiator" people would still cry to enable F55 or F65 feature-set.

Too bad I didn't stick with my first decision on the F5. Guess I learned a $12,000 lesson.

tisk tisk shame on me.
Click to expand...


the smallest consolation but unlike car owners at least camera owners can be making money off their asset not just watch it depreciate for nothing. Just thing of all the 4K shoots you have been requested over the last year or so that you wouldn't have on the F5. How many times has post re-framing or global shutter allowed you to offer creative solutions to your clients over the last year. :)

Early adopters of anything are always screwed. Its the law of the tech gods. Early Epic owners had their values slashed in half. Red dumps barely used Scarlets/epic on the market for a deal again reducing value. C500 early adopters saw the camera price go for a 'deal of a lifetime' that saw many C300 owners jump on it. Even the FS700 which was sold as a 4K upgradable camera had to wait for CD Odyssey as Sony's solution was a monstrocity. If I had a FS700 and was banking on the 4K upgrade path then saw the recorder and interface from Sony I would have puked.

With any smart purchase it should be a matter of thinking about the money it allowed you to make and not the value lost a year or two later. I have no skin in this game so its easy for me to stay unemotional but I completely understand the feelings you are having. Last car I bought before current one I bought a model despite missing some options I would have wanted to only see the new model get a re-vamp and include all the features I had wanted. Only solution was to sell and take the loss to get those features or keep driving what was prior to that moment a great car.
 
dennis,
as i remember you were coming from the F3 too as myself - so there's our 12.000.- dollar reason...
who would've imagined that they have the same internals... i myself then didn't dare to think that they would do that ...

makes me wonder if the RAW recorder simply is a Card Reader in a different box...

See Sony? This is what happens...
 
Just remember the F55 wasn't really mature until recently so to give 4K to F5 (which has been getting all the perks) at around the same time both are just getting out of the gate is crazy.

At least now I know why Sony put a silver ring on the F55 - it will be the last and only thing separating the two after all the free giveaways on the F5.
 
GaryinCalifornia said:
the link doesn't work for me... so basically I think Nate said he installed the F55 on the F5 and that did the trick... is that it...
Click to expand...
No, it's a matter of modifying settings file present on memory card, nothing to do with firmware.
http://extrashot.co.uk/howwedidit/

There might be some more interesting stuff there. All you have to do is to change one or two settings a time and save as a new settings file. Compare both of them and then you will know what this applies to. This way you will be able to decode what each line refers to and eliminate all not important ones (like gain vs iso etc.). You will be left with good ones :) Who knows? Maybe there is some stuff that could only work for F55?
Do at your own risk though.

What is very surprising for me is the fact that settings on FS700 are binary files. Is a bit like they would leave them text on F5/55 on purpose...
 
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lol saw it of all places on a facebook post by Phil Bloom right after I posted that...

More or less by changing line 150 of in the text file from that he can enable internal 4K XAVC recording up to 60p.
 
starcentral said:
Yes I agree and many many manufacturers do this all the time with product XYZ. But I really think this is a different issue / argument all together. Just because its there doesn't change the fact that you bought camera X on its paper specs - and these days more and more everything really does boil down to firmware not so much the hardware.

Trust me, even if Sony decided to manufacture one slightly different board inside the F5 as the "differentiator" people would still cry to enable F55 or F65 feature-set.

Too bad I didn't stick with my first decision on the F5. Guess I learned a $12,000 lesson.

tisk tisk shame on me.
Click to expand...

Agreed Dennis. Sony doesn't owe F5 owners anything that they haven't already received. The F5 and R5 together are a killer combo. Not only did F5 owners get the camera they where promised they also have been the beneficiaries of numerous free updates that came after significant software investments from Sony. Sony is entitled to recoup that investment and I wouldn't be surprised of Sony fixed this in a future firmware update. There is still lots of great stuff to come including ProRes recording that people who decide to freeze their firmware would miss out on.

Having said that the hack is apparently incredibly simple and it's in the wild so there's no going back. Offering F55 owner a substantial discount on some future purchase might not be a bad idea.
 
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I personally don't think Sony will end up condoning this. They can't. F5 owners don't have anything to complain about. They purchased the product they did knowing what it can and can't do.

Who knows how Sony will get people away from it though outside of offering a firmware update that has some amazing benefits but closes the loop hole and forcing people to choose.
 
alohype said:
No, it's a matter of modifying settings file present on memory card, nothing to do with firmware.
http://extrashot.co.uk/howwedidit/

There might be some more interesting stuff there. All you have to do is to change one or two settings a time and save as a new settings file. Compare both of them and then you will know what this applies to. This way you will be able to decode what each line refers to and eliminate all not important ones (like gain vs iso etc.). You will be left with good ones :) Who knows? Maybe there is some stuff that could only work for F55?
Do at your own risk though.

What is very surprising for me is the fact that settings on FS700 are binary files. Is a bit like they would leave them text on F5/55 on purpose...
Click to expand...

The web site link does not work anymore. Can anybody help? Never mind, page is up again. ..
Thank you!
 
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