Re: Sony A7RII - FIRST video sample!!!

just to change the subject a little: with the new software update the shogun will record 4K 10bit Prores from the A7RII's clean HDMI out? is that correct? what i don't get is that i would need the XDCA-FS7 to do the same with my FS7? how would that compare? or is that output 12bit?
 
Paul schefz said:
just to change the subject a little: with the new software update the shogun will record 4K 10bit Prores from the A7RII's clean HDMI out? is that correct?...
Click to expand...
A7RII sends out an 8-bit 4:2:2 signal, so if Shogun records in 10-bit, it's likely to be only a wrapper.
 
Dan Chung at newsshooter.com got his hands on a A7RII. The biggest letdown for me is that the rolling shutter looks terrible in S35 mode. Better in full frame, where I guess it pixel bins. Not sure how that rumour about near global shutter like performance in S35 crop got started, this looks very much like the A7s. Samuel, perhaps you can measure based on his test footage?

Also, it looks as if the new focusing system with third party lenses, only works in still mode. http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/07/...sions-hands-on-with-the-surprising-4k-camera/
 
dfreerider said:
Dan Chung at newsshooter.com got his hands on a A7RII. The biggest letdown for me is that the rolling shutter looks terrible in S35 mode. Better in full frame, where I guess it pixel bins. Not sure how that rumour about near global shutter like performance in S35 crop got started, this looks very much like the A7s. Samuel, perhaps you can measure based on his test footage?

Also, it looks as if the new focusing system with third party lenses, only works in still mode. http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/07/...sions-hands-on-with-the-surprising-4k-camera/
Click to expand...
That info was about rx100 IV. Here's article explaining that precisely: http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com.es/2015/06/more-details-on-sony-fast-full-frame.html
 
dfreerider said:
Actually, somebody did have a hands on with the A7RII and basically said it didn't have any rolling shutter in S35 mode. It was reported in a lot of places, like http://www.eoshd.com/2015/06/first-sony-a7r-ii-user-experiences-global-shutter-and-native-iso-800/

Obviously, it was a false rumour.
Click to expand...

Weird, the amount of data coming off full frame and S35 would be roughly similar, surely? If anything more off the full frame, depending on where the binning is happening. I find it so strange that the crop mode has more rolling shutter.

But this is a pre-production camera, maybe there's some debugging code in there or non optimised debayering in S35.

That level of RS is unacceptable IMHO. I struggle so much with the A7s in post, that's still my #1 A7s II request...

cheers
Paul
 
paulcurtis said:
Weird, the amount of data coming off full frame and S35 would be roughly similar, surely? If anything more off the full frame, depending on where the binning is happening. I find it so strange that the crop mode has more rolling shutter.

But this is a pre-production camera, maybe there's some debugging code in there or non optimised debayering in S35.

That level of RS is unacceptable IMHO. I struggle so much with the A7s in post, that's still my #1 A7s II request...

cheers
Paul
Click to expand...

Could be the A7rII oversamples more in s35 mode compared to FF. Binning in FF probably happens in-sensor, if at all. Could also be skipping a lot.
Also, AF in video mode doesn't look as good as marketing blurb implied.
Back to waiting for the a7sII then.
 
cpc said:
Could be the A7rII oversamples more in s35 mode compared to FF. Binning in FF probably happens in-sensor, if at all. Could also be skipping a lot.
Also, AF in video mode doesn't look as good as marketing blurb implied.
Back to waiting for the a7sII then.
Click to expand...

Personally, I completely expected these types of quirks.
 
Me too. Things to expect with these little cameras compared to their larger peers (FS700/FS7/F5) is bad rolling shutter, breakable codecs, tiny weaker construction, lack of NDs, bad audio quality, horrible battery life, slower menu UI, single media slots, crappy slowmotion, worse lowlight performance, etc Otherwise people would trade their s35 4K FS7s with s35 4K A7Rs
 
Ebrahim Saadawi said:
Me too. Things to expect with these little cameras compared to their larger peers (FS700/FS7/F5) is bad rolling shutter, breakable codecs, tiny weaker construction, lack of NDs, bad audio quality, horrible battery life, slower menu UI, single media slots, crappy slowmotion, worse lowlight performance, etc Otherwise people would trade their s35 4K FS7s with s35 4K A7Rs
Click to expand...

Yep. Your exactly right. It will get there one day...just not now. If you expect these things to pop up and you go into it knowing there is a boatload of marketing fluff and "excited talk"...its easier to swallow the other things. That said, I'm sure its still going to be a cool little camera.

For me, if Im going to invest $3K or more into a camera...I'd rather spend way more on something that really checks the boxes and could last years rather than "year."
 
* The "glubal shutter by brute force" prediction was about the 1" stacked sensor, as alyhope said

* Yes, I can measure it from here. I'll try when I get to my PC.

* In FF mode it's probably skipping lines and columns, and reading exactly 3840x2160 photosites. In APS-C mode it reads at least 15 Mpix (maybe 19 Mpix if the crop is closer to S35 than to APS-C, as some first-hand user said), plus, it can't use all the ADCs, just around two thirds of them (they are usually at the top and bottom or at the sides, so the part of the sensor you're not reading because of the crop means unused ADCs)
 
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OK, here are the numbers:

* In FF mode, a relatively decent 19.9 ms (faster than the 5D3, for example)
* In S35 mode, a truly horrible 34.0 ms (slower than the D90, a lot slower than the NX1 or the a7S)

More details and full comparison table here

The fact that the a7S and the NX1 have a very slow rolling shutter doesn't bother me because they also have a mode where they are a lot faster (APS-C in the a7S, 1080p in the NX1), so you can switch to that for shots with lots of motion. That's also the case with the a7R II, but now 34 ms may be too slow even for normal shots...

My other caveat was dismissed after reading the post. It was that unless you shoot in S35 with a speedbooster (and we still don't know whether that will be an option, it depends on the actual crop), you're going to need two sets of lenses in order to do this with the a7R II (i.e. if the crop is 1.35x and you go for S35 cine glass, you're going to have to keep a FF set at hand for the fast RS shots). But I read in the review that both APS-C lenses and FF+speedbooster work on the S35 mode, so, if this crop is smaller than 1.5x, it is not by much; good, you can use FF+speedbooster if you want to use both recording modes to maximize image quality depending on the shot.

Note: I originally thought the camera was shooting 24p, and my numbers were 20.7 and 35.4 ms, but after reading the post and learning that it was a PAL camera, I checked the files and they are 25p, which leads to the correct 19.9 ms and 34.0 ms measurements for FF and S35 respectively. (I use the inter-frame displacement as my basis for measuring how much time passes between the moment where the top and bottom of the image are captured)
 
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With all the awesomeness the A7RII seems to have no one should be surprised it doesn't perform like a high end digital cinema camera. It's a hybrid and they will always have limitations. No free lunch. With that I can live with it.

Dont ever expect it to either. Sony like any of the big guys have a lot of very expensive camera's they want to keep selling but Sony is kicking Canons ass right now that's for sure. Giving us a ton of great features and now internal 4K. Oh Canon. You had it and lost it. But you do have color science in your corner. I do wish Canon would get in the game. Unfortunately I think they wont. Canon has no mirrorless offers and the future is mirrorless not DSLR.

Rant over. :-D
 
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Canon still beats Sony on glass and that's a huge advantage on the sub-$20,000 cameras (i.e., anything without the PL extravaganza). Besides, Sony cripples its products rather heavily. All 5D MK IV and 1D X2 have to do is to cripple themselves less to be really competitive.

As to A7RII, I'd wait until the camera is out and a bunch of clips can be analyzed and deciphered. Chances are that, with all those Loxia and Batis primes, it'll work for narrative and, with native FE zooms, it should work for run-n-gun as well.
 
DLD said:
Canon still beats Sony on glass and that's a huge advantage on the sub-$20,000 cameras (i.e., anything without the PL extravaganza). Besides, Sony cripples its products rather heavily. All 5D MK IV and 1D X2 have to do is to cripple themselves less to be really competitive.

As to A7RII, I'd wait until the camera is out and a bunch of clips can be analyzed and deciphered. Chances are that, with all those Loxia and Batis primes, it'll work for narrative and, with native FE zooms, it should work for run-n-gun as well.
Click to expand...

I was looking into the Loxia's too and I was very dissapointed with the close focusing distance. This is a weak point for most E-Mount lenses, but as a high end prime I expected more. To me, an elite prime should have a close focusing distance, it is part of the versatility of a prime that I've come to expect.

Here is a list of lenses with the closest focusing distances calculated as the closest distance from the subject to the front of the lens. Normally the "closest focusing distance" is calculated from the image plane, but this is misleading if the lens has a shorter length, which most E-Mount (FE & SEL) lenses are. So when you take this into account, the E-Mount lenses perform poorly, with the exception of a few. Most that do well aren't made by Sony or Zeiss, it is Samsyang/Rokinon/Bower.

[TABLE="width: 549"]
[TR]
[TD]Lens[/TD]
[TD]Mount[/TD]
[TD]Distance from Front of Lens (cm)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Voigtlander 17.5 F0.95[/TD]
[TD]M43[/TD]
[TD]6.99[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 16[/TD]
[TD]SEL[/TD]
[TD]8.46[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Voigtlander 10.5 F0.95[/TD]
[TD]M43[/TD]
[TD]8.76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony SEL 24 F1.8[/TD]
[TD]SEL[/TD]
[TD]9.2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Voigtlander 25 F0.95[/TD]
[TD]M43[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon EF 14 F2.8[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]10.67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 16[/TD]
[TD]EF-S[/TD]
[TD]11.06[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Zeiss Batis 25 F2[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]11.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 24[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]12.65[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 12[/TD]
[TD]M43[/TD]
[TD]12.75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 12[/TD]
[TD]SEL[/TD]
[TD]12.75[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 24[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]15.24[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 14[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]15.79[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]sigma EF 18-35 Art[/TD]
[TD]EF-S[/TD]
[TD]15.84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sigma 24 F1.4 Art[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]15.98[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 35[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]16.25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon EF 24 F1.4L II[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]16.31[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 14[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]17.82[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon 100 F2.8L[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]18.19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sigma 105mm f/2.8[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]18.54[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony 10-18 F4[/TD]
[TD]SEL[/TD]
[TD]18.64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony FE 35 F1.4[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]18.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 35[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]18.85[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sigma 35 F1.4 Art[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]20.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tokina 11-16 F2.8 II[/TD]
[TD]EF-S[/TD]
[TD]21.08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon EF 35 F1.4L[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]21.36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Zeiss Loxia 35[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]24.08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony SEL 35 F1.8[/TD]
[TD]SEL[/TD]
[TD]25.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]26.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony SEL 16-70 F4[/TD]
[TD]SEL[/TD]
[TD]27.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sigma 50 F1.4 Art[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]30.01[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony FE 24-70[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]30.55[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony FE 35 F2.8[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]31.35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sigma 24-105 F4[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]34.04[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon 24-105 F4L[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]34.33[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 50[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]34.93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon EF 50 F1.2L[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]36.42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 50[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]36.84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]*Zeiss Loxia 50[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]39.08[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sony FE 55 F1.8[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]42.95[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Zeiss Batis 85 F1.8[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]70.8[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon EF 135 F2L[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]80.26[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canon 85 F1.2L II[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]85.86[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 85[/TD]
[TD]FE[/TD]
[TD]90.93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rokinon 85[/TD]
[TD]EF[/TD]
[TD]92.745[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sigma 30 F1.4 Art[/TD]
[TD]EF-S[/TD]
[TD]23.67[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
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Emanuel said:
I've thought the same. Very odd and stupid that Faymus Media's report. Why so?

In any case, I am still wondering on the Dan Chung tests' focal length, though...
Click to expand...

It is post #5 in the SonyAlphaRumors forum, that is where Faymus Media posted his claim.

http://www.sonyalphaforum.com/topic/951-complaints-about-a7rii/?p=5934

Most likely he saw the FF image and not the S35. But still Faymus Media needs to answer as to why he reported the S35 as having zero rolling shutter.

I for one was getting ready to sell all of my Canon gear due to that one report, I'm glad I didn't yet!
 
ectobuilder said:
It is post #5 in the SonyAlphaRumors forum, that is where Faymus Media posted his claim.

http://www.sonyalphaforum.com/topic/951-complaints-about-a7rii/?p=5934

Most likely he saw the FF image and not the S35. But still Faymus Media needs to answer as to why he reported the S35 as having zero rolling shutter.
Click to expand...
Right. Also here along this thread in two posts to not let doubts...

Faymus Media said:
Base ISO for A7R II is 800 for Slog-2. I used it all day today. Its amazing. S35 crop means 0 rolling shutter.
Click to expand...
Faymus Media said:
As far as S35 mode. Think of it different than APS-C mode on the A7s as its not the same. The A7s is 1.6 crop, and the A7rII is 1.3x crop (i believe). No rolling shutter while shooting 24/30p. Awesome camera.
Click to expand...

Does it make any sense?!
 
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