Yes i have recently purchased a GH4,mainly for wildlife filming with the new lens when we get them here.But i find the detail resolution not that impressive with the kit 14-140,my FZ1000 beets it in tests i have done with both cameras set at the same sharpness level,should this be so,the GH4 has a larger senser.
GH4 Rather disappointed with the detail
- Thread starter flinty
- Start date
Mark Williams
Veteran
Never had had a problem with detail on my GH4. High detail was one of the reasons I bought it. I had video displayed on a 50 foot theater screen without complaint. Although degraded by Vimeo encoding you are welcome to view my work with it over the past 2 years and judge for yourself. My glass is listed in the video descriptions.
[video]https://vimeo.com/channels/3523[/video]
[video]https://vimeo.com/channels/3523[/video]
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Jaime Valles
Veteran
Agreed. The Lumix 14-140mm lens is not particularly sharp. Try the 12-35 or 35-100 and you should get much better detail from the GH4 at 4K.
Just checking... you're sure you were shooting at 4K in Manual Movie Mode and not at 1080, right?
Thanks for the replies,yes both were on 4K record 100 Mbps,so the 14-140 is not that sharp interesting,i hope the 100-400 will be,i know the FZ1000 records very sharp video it beats my HC-X1000 as well,the good thing is the GH4s is better it records shadow detail better than the FZ1000,for the filming i do lenses like the 12-35 are to wide not enough length.
An afterthought if the 14-140 is not sharp for 4k video how can it manage to take stills.
An afterthought if the 14-140 is not sharp for 4k video how can it manage to take stills.
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You should be borschting in anger.
(seriously, try a better lens .. there's a new Panasonic 100-400 that is rated highly ... and then, you may want to try an external recorder for a higher bit rate than 100 Mbps)
Thomas Smet
Veteran
There are a lot of other factors that can play into why the GH4 may look softer as well and right now we have no image samples or information on how you shot with both cameras to really give any logical advice.
If you were shooting outdoors did you use ND filters on the GH4? The 14-140 gets very soft with diffraction once you stop it down past f11. Perhaps the lens on the FZ1000 just handles diffraction a little bit better. All camera lenses tend to have a sharpness sweet spot and that is typically around f5.6. Some m43 lenses can go a bit lower for a sweet spot around f4.0.
You also have to factor in the markets for the cameras and the baked in settings. The FZ1000 is strictly a consumer device and likely has a lot of sharpness baked into the look of the video to make it more punchy. The GH4 is a professional camera and may have a more balanced level of edge enhancement in the camera. Sharpness is rarely an indicator of resolution. Sharpness increases acutance or the perceived contrast of the image making it look sharper but resolution is different. Consumer cameras have always used a high level of sharpness to increase the acutance to make video look punchy and vibrant. You can increase the sharpness level on the GH4 to match this. Just because both cameras are made by Panasonic does not mean sharpness of 0 on the FX1000 means the same as sharpness of 0 on the GH4.
Finally the FZ1000 has a Leica lens built in designed to work well out of the box. Thats one of the reasons why the DVX200 chose a built in lens. They are better able to optimize how well it works as opposed to an interchangeable lens. Leica makes very good lenses and are some of my favorite primes on the GH4. Zoom lenses tend to be softer than prime lenses because of what needs to take place in the lens to make zooming a possibility. The FZ1000 is a built in well designed lens plus it works with a smaller sensor. The FZ1000 sensor is also a 20MP sensor so while it is smaller it packs more pixels onto that sensor. I don't recall but I don't think the FZ1000 uses a crop factor so it just scales down that 20MP for 4k video which means its over sampled and can help the sharpness a bit. The by product is you can get more aliasing in fine detail. Aliasing has long been an illusion on DSLR cameras that the video is very detailed but its fact detail. 4k on the GH4 is as clean and real of 4k video as you can get.
If you were shooting outdoors did you use ND filters on the GH4? The 14-140 gets very soft with diffraction once you stop it down past f11. Perhaps the lens on the FZ1000 just handles diffraction a little bit better. All camera lenses tend to have a sharpness sweet spot and that is typically around f5.6. Some m43 lenses can go a bit lower for a sweet spot around f4.0.
You also have to factor in the markets for the cameras and the baked in settings. The FZ1000 is strictly a consumer device and likely has a lot of sharpness baked into the look of the video to make it more punchy. The GH4 is a professional camera and may have a more balanced level of edge enhancement in the camera. Sharpness is rarely an indicator of resolution. Sharpness increases acutance or the perceived contrast of the image making it look sharper but resolution is different. Consumer cameras have always used a high level of sharpness to increase the acutance to make video look punchy and vibrant. You can increase the sharpness level on the GH4 to match this. Just because both cameras are made by Panasonic does not mean sharpness of 0 on the FX1000 means the same as sharpness of 0 on the GH4.
Finally the FZ1000 has a Leica lens built in designed to work well out of the box. Thats one of the reasons why the DVX200 chose a built in lens. They are better able to optimize how well it works as opposed to an interchangeable lens. Leica makes very good lenses and are some of my favorite primes on the GH4. Zoom lenses tend to be softer than prime lenses because of what needs to take place in the lens to make zooming a possibility. The FZ1000 is a built in well designed lens plus it works with a smaller sensor. The FZ1000 sensor is also a 20MP sensor so while it is smaller it packs more pixels onto that sensor. I don't recall but I don't think the FZ1000 uses a crop factor so it just scales down that 20MP for 4k video which means its over sampled and can help the sharpness a bit. The by product is you can get more aliasing in fine detail. Aliasing has long been an illusion on DSLR cameras that the video is very detailed but its fact detail. 4k on the GH4 is as clean and real of 4k video as you can get.
The tests were subjects with trees not yet in leaf also railings in the frame,the FZ1000 showed more railings etc on wide shots,until i did these comparisons i was happy with the GH4 and still am but i didnt expect my FZ to resolve more lines of res,i will try with my Canon 18-135 EFS,sadly the metabones adapter i bought does not give AF.
losmignones
Member
fyi: the cheap 45-200 is surprisingly sharp and overall a great lens for the price
14-140mm II gives very soft and foggy image if using smallest apertures (f12-22). When using GH4 in sunny day with shutter priority (SS 1/50 - 1/120) the aperture is easily f16 or f22. This mistake is easy to make because Panasonic cameras dont show exposure values during video. Try f 4-5.6.
Once again thanks for all the help this is a very short vimeo test https://vimeo.com/163800624 and a longer youtube one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOkCrNjamN8 the 45-200 sounds interesting.
I watched your Youtube example. 100% (1:1) detail level is about the same but FZ1000 has much higher contrast. I prefer GH4 lower contrast. It has thinner tree branches and better dynamic range. I think the GH4 4k image is better than FZ1000 when I add some sharpening and contrast.
What settings did you use? All standard 0,0,0,0 with both ?
What settings did you use? All standard 0,0,0,0 with both ?
Both the same,all 0 except sharpness -2 on both
Thomas Smet
Veteran
As was previously stated just because both cameras are made by Panasonic doesn't mean equal settings across both cameras will deliver the same results. All cameras are different and the FZ1000 is a consumer camera which is designed to have a punchy, high contrast and vibrant look right out of the box. Contrast of 0 on the FZ1000 will not look the same as contrast at 0 on the GH4. Same with sharpness, saturation and so forth.
Ok Thomas what settngs do you use or suggest,i guess the answer will be experiment but other users probobly know what is best on the GH4,contrast and sharpness up i suppose to match the FZs resolution.Thanks for the input
So is it really accutance that's the difference or resolution that is the problem? Accutance can be increased by contrast as well as by edge detail (sharpness to some, noise to create the illusion of a sharp edge to old time video camera techs.). I can explain edge detail in old school terms and techniques as it relates to 3 tube/chip cameras if it would help, but it's kind of off topic past the accutance question in my first sentence.
Bruce Foreman
Veteran
Flinty:
The 14-140 is an "extended range" zoom, from 28mm wide equiv to 280mm tele equiv. Just about every one of that type is a "compromise" of IQ for convenience. You may be better off with more conservative range zooms or way better off with primes. Your sample videos done to compare with the FZ1000 also exhibit what looks to me like fairly severe image degradation from "diffraction" due to f11 or smaller aperture, the lower contrast and slightly "foggy" look are characteristic of this.
I have the both the Lumix 45-200 and the Lumix 45-150 lenses. The former is what I use when I need the longer "reach" of the 200mm end however focus has to be done very carefully and it can look a bit soft due to perspective compression and a bit less contrast in most of the situations I find myself in with it. The 45-150 delivers a bit "punchier" image where I don't need the 200mm (400mm equiv) reach.
The 14-140 is an "extended range" zoom, from 28mm wide equiv to 280mm tele equiv. Just about every one of that type is a "compromise" of IQ for convenience. You may be better off with more conservative range zooms or way better off with primes. Your sample videos done to compare with the FZ1000 also exhibit what looks to me like fairly severe image degradation from "diffraction" due to f11 or smaller aperture, the lower contrast and slightly "foggy" look are characteristic of this.
I have the both the Lumix 45-200 and the Lumix 45-150 lenses. The former is what I use when I need the longer "reach" of the 200mm end however focus has to be done very carefully and it can look a bit soft due to perspective compression and a bit less contrast in most of the situations I find myself in with it. The 45-150 delivers a bit "punchier" image where I don't need the 200mm (400mm equiv) reach.
Thanks i see what you say but the fixed lens of the FZ1000 covers a far larger range,i am getting a 45-200 and 100-400,its wildlife i purchased the GH4 camera for.