Quality is Disappointing

Craigsnedeker

Craigsnedeker

Active member
The quality I'm getting isn't what I'd expect for a $2k camera. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE This camera! Nice size, great features, but watch this to see what I mean...

Viddler.com - 00033_xvid_001 - Uploaded by JESUSFRK

(note: video was converted using low quality settings, so I could get the thing uploaded fast (gotta go to bed) so don't expect much, I'm mostly worried on color and exposure, etc)

Watch that, I can't get sky exposed good, and the exposure is just off in to many ways. DDR (or DSR, I forgot) just adds unwanted grain artifacts and makes the video look like a n00b HDR photograph.

Any idea how I can get more professional results? I'm kind of disappointed.
 
The 40 will produce stunning images if you get it tweaked right. Think scene files, manual control, no gain, and no DRS. Also, how are you viewing the footage? If you don't have top notch equipment and software, you might be viewing a degraded image. For starters, try cam direct to a good TV. Do you have the Barry Green book? Lots of answers there too!

Trust me, this cam is capable.

Grant
 
There is nothing wrong with your camera. Exposing ground and sky together so the sky doesn't blow out is done all the time and has very little to do with what brand and model of camera you're using.

Both images below use a .6 ND Grad dropped into the matte box.

car_scene_1.jpg




01_field_sky.jpg
 
Shooting into a lightly overcast sky in the direction of the sun is one of the greatest dynamic range challenges you can present to any camera, still or video, film or electronic. It's almost impossible to capture the whole range of brightness in such a scene without adding fill light, using graduated filters, or knowledgeably adjusting the camera's various dynamic range-related settings (gamma, pedestal, DRS, knee, etc.). When just starting out with an unfamiliar camera, it's best to begin with the old advice immortalized in Kodak's point-n-shoot camera instruction books, which was basically to shoot in the morning or late afternoon on a lightly hazy day and always keep the sun behind you. Once you figure out what the camera can do in those "easy" conditions, and how all the settings and controls interact to affect the look of the picture, then move on to more challenging outdoor and indoor lighting situations. You started with one of the toughest.

- Greg
 
I agree with the others and that playing with the scene files and keeping sun to back or side is a big plus. I also have a UV filter on my 40 which I found helps with crisper skies. I had to connect the camera to my TV to adjust a scene file to make the outside shot look the way I wanted without killing it. LCD I found, and please correct me if anyone else does not have this issue, is good to frame your subject and focus...colors and such are not that great. You can view a video I did in February at www.fullwavemedia.com in my portfolio that may give you more confidence on the sky and surroundings color. The second video the terrain was not the focus but I think the sky was nice enough but yet did not take away from subjects...as they were. By the way, like the name JESUSFRKSvideos.
 
Thanks for all the replies! My main concern is shooting in the field, where you don't have time to set up shots, compose your shot, and can't choose the position of the sun, and yet still get professional quality.

craigbowman said:
There is nothing wrong with your camera. Exposing ground and sky together so the sky doesn't blow out is done all the time and has very little to do with what brand and model of camera you're using.

Both images below use a .6 ND Grad dropped into the matte box.

car_scene_1.jpg




01_field_sky.jpg
Click to expand...
Actually, I have ND filters... but I forgot it. I'll have to try those out today! Thanks :)

Greg Smith said:
Shooting into a lightly overcast sky in the direction of the sun is one of the greatest dynamic range challenges you can present to any camera, still or video, film or electronic. It's almost impossible to capture the whole range of brightness in such a scene without adding fill light, using graduated filters, or knowledgeably adjusting the camera's various dynamic range-related settings (gamma, pedestal, DRS, knee, etc.). When just starting out with an unfamiliar camera, it's best to begin with the old advice immortalized in Kodak's point-n-shoot camera instruction books, which was basically to shoot in the morning or late afternoon on a lightly hazy day and always keep the sun behind you. Once you figure out what the camera can do in those "easy" conditions, and how all the settings and controls interact to affect the look of the picture, then move on to more challenging outdoor and indoor lighting situations. You started with one of the toughest.

- Greg
Click to expand...
Many thanks!

wolf184 said:
I agree with the others and that playing with the scene files and keeping sun to back or side is a big plus. I also have a UV filter on my 40 which I found helps with crisper skies. I had to connect the camera to my TV to adjust a scene file to make the outside shot look the way I wanted without killing it. LCD I found, and please correct me if anyone else does not have this issue, is good to frame your subject and focus...colors and such are not that great. You can view a video I did in February at www.fullwavemedia.com in my portfolio that may give you more confidence on the sky and surroundings color. The second video the terrain was not the focus but I think the sky was nice enough but yet did not take away from subjects...as they were. By the way, like the name JESUSFRKSvideos.
Click to expand...
I do have a small portable TV (a CAR DVD) maybe that could help me out. Not as big as a TV though. And thanks ;) (btw nice avatar, you like rally racing?)

ggrantly said:
The 40 will produce stunning images if you get it tweaked right. Think scene files, manual control, no gain, and no DRS. Also, how are you viewing the footage? If you don't have top notch equipment and software, you might be viewing a degraded image. For starters, try cam direct to a good TV. Do you have the Barry Green book? Lots of answers there too!

Trust me, this cam is capable.

Grant
Click to expand...
Thanks :)
 
Craig,

Your quote: "Thanks for all the replies! My main concern is shooting in the field, where you don't have time to set up shots, compose your shot, and can't choose the position of the sun, and yet still get professional quality."

I'm sorry to give it to you like this, but that quote is a oxymoron. Start with a difficult scenario and expect instant "professional" results, whatever that means. Not trying to be flippant, but there is a reality check to be had somewhere here.

Grant
 
Well, to break it down succinctly:

"set up shots, compose your shot, and . . . choose the position of the sun"

Is exactly what you do in order to GET professional results. No camera will perform well if you don't do those things. Professional results do not lie in the camera; they lie in the professional operating it.

Also, what the HMC40 (and many other comparable cams from numerous companies) will do for ONLY $2000 should make your head explode. You really do need to adjust your expectations and appreciate what you have.
 
To back that up -- the HMC40 can deliver results that are just astounding, when all the proper factors are accounted for (lighting, composition, positioning, all that stuff). It really is an amazing little camera.
 
I'm sorry to give it to you like this, but that quote is a oxymoron. Start with a difficult scenario and expect instant "professional" results, whatever that means. Not trying to be flippant, but there is a reality check to be had somewhere here.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know..
 
Craigsnedeker said:
My main concern is shooting in the field, where you don't have time to set up shots, compose your shot, and can't choose the position of the sun, and yet still get professional quality.
Click to expand...

I agree with the other users in that by performing those tasks (in bold) as well as other tasks are paramount to achieve professional quality. Basically, in the relationship between the operator and camera, the operator is the most important determining factor for professional quality.

It's unclear to me what you mean by shooting in the field. What do you typically film? Are you almost always going to be filming outside? Are you filming sports events, wildlife, or something else? If it's a sporting event and the sun is ahead of the camera, you could move over to the other side and then the sun would be behind the camera. For wildlife, this could be more difficult.

If you know what you will be filming in advance, it's easier to compose your shots and set them up pretty quickly. If you expect to be filming one type of activity all the time (say mainly weddings or baseball games), you'll know in advance what your camera settings need to be for the future; if necessary, you can make slight tweaks from your usual camera set-up.

The HMC Book is really helpful in figuring what you can get out of your HMC40. I read it from cover to cover while putting colored sticky tabs on pages that I deemed to be very valuable to my needs in case I need to recall those specific details (I made a system where each color corresponds to topics regarding film look, green screen, software/computer, and miscellaneous, but important info). In any case, you can certainly get much better quality out of the HMC40.
 
If you're doing narrative stuff, outdoors - the sun can be a huge problem in getting good exposure - much less professional, "cinematic" exposure. There is far more to that than camera settings, and often even position and angle are starting points you select to lessen the work yet to be done, not a final step.

You'll often need reflectors (big ones) and overheads (butterflies) to achieve a really great look. Look at any big location set and they're also using HMI's or Tungsten (really, really big ones) shot through silks and gels. You can go a very long way with big reflectors to fill in - sheets of foamcore, or bedsheets stretched on lumber or PVC frames; often the size of the reflector needs to be BIG, like 10' square or more.

If you're not really versed on that stuff, hit Amazon for a copy of "from Still to Motion" - technically a DSLR book, but a great start for learning a lot of this stuff, with some DIY examples thrown in.
 
It's unclear to me what you mean by shooting in the field. What do you typically film? Are you almost always going to be filming outside? Are you filming sports events, wildlife, or something else? If it's a sporting event and the sun is ahead of the camera, you could move over to the other side and then the sun would be behind the camera. For wildlife, this could be more difficult.
Click to expand...
Like events (tea party rallies, just as an example) and rally races, something where they say "you stand here and don't cross this line" and you can't help it (unless you get a media pass, but I've already tired and they wouldn't give me one).

I'm not necessarily looking for cinema looks but not that blown out look, like in the video. I might be shooting into the sun more often, and would like a somewhat good exposure on my subject.

But thanks for all the tips and stuff. I'll look into that book ;)
 
Well, in the video at your link, the entire picture was overexposed, not just the sky. You probably want to look into the basics of exposure as a starting point, and learn to use the tools at your disposal (zebras, waveform) to bring the picture into appropriate ranges.
 
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