Press Release: HMC150, "the new DVX"

Barry_Green said:
I saw no indication of any working HMC150, just a mockup. There is apparently a working HPX170 somewhere; I'll try to get closer to it. The first day of NAB is a madhouse.
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Yes, please do if possible. I find it a little odd that there's no HMC150 but there's a working HPX170 somewhere. I would think the HMC150 would have been at the show instead.

Either way, the HPX170 is what I'm really interested in. If you could, Barry, that would be awesome!
 
Is there any word that the HMC150 will do timelapse and hopefully timed long-exposure as well.

vidwerk.
 
^ I am thinking they most likely will stick with the existing standard HD formats (24p, 30p, 60i, 60p), so we would have to hope they drop those features into the existing formats with redundant frames (like the 100/100A do for timelapse). What would make more sense is to simply write to those files slowly so your 24p file actually has individual frames and takes up less space (since there isn't something like a 720p1 standard). Prior to flash media, the fixed tape speed would not allow this, but I'd like to see solid state cameras make use of this for variable speeds so the HD standards do not get in the way. That would essentially allow for >60fps with consumer standard codecs.
 
I've read there's a working prototype of the 150 at NAB (hope the person who wrote this wasn't mixing it up with the 170). If so, could Bob Diaz, Barry Green, or some other kind soul please put that baby on Cine-D and record some to an SD card and post some footage. Love to see how the new sensors handle the film look and low light. Please move it around and test how AVCHD handles motion at the highest bitrate. Thank you, guys.
 
BobDiaz said:
I understand the placement of the HVX-200a and the HMC150, but the where HPX170 fits in the product line is unclear.
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Actually I don't get the idea behind HMC150, if it costs approx. $3500 or even more. Amateurs and regular shooters won't buy it, it's too expensive for an AVCHD camera, and some more advanced shooters and professionals want to use P2 format instead, because of the easier and better image manipulating possibilities... What is the color space of HMC150's video, is it 4:1:1?
AVCHD is a very heavy codec to edit, it'll take at least 2 years for computers and programs to handle it easily in its native format.

Okey, plus factors:
+cheaper memory cards than P2, and more easy storage
+affordable replacement for old DV/HDV tape cameras

I just think P2 has already made a steady place in the professional field, that is hard to replace. It'll be nice to see if HMC150 will replace DVX as the camera choice for small indie movies, or will they go for HPX170 or HVX200?

If I were to buy new low cost pro camera, it would be the HPX170 simply for the supported quality format and workflow it already has.
 
The HVX (and hpx17) is still in a much different price range from the hmc150. There were people buying DVX100Bs for close to the price of Canon's A1 not too long ago, so I would bet a lot of money that MANY people will be buying this camera. Yes, P2 is established in the pro world, but consider how many "non-pros" and indie film makers got the DVX for what it was: a great camera attatched to a consumer format at a good price. This camera will do the same for those who love Pany, want to go HD, but can't quite afford an HVX and P2 cards.

In terms of editing, HDV and P2 suffered the same issues you bring up a few years back. Also, remember how long it took for 24p editing to get nailed down. A lot of programs already support 24p and AVCHD today, probably will be a lot better by the time the camera is released with how far forward this codec has been moving. AVCHD is 4:2:0, same as HDV, DVD, etc.

I would be curious to know if cameras like this export real-time non-compressed video to the outputs (hdmi, component). 4:2:0 is good enough for most applications, but if you could get uncompressed output, then it could still work for greenscreen in a studio.
 
proffit said:
Actually I don't get the idea behind HMC150, if it costs approx. $3500 or even more. Amateurs and regular shooters won't buy it . . . and some more advanced shooters and professionals want to use P2 format instead . .
AVCHD is a very heavy codec to edit, it'll take at least 2 years for computers and programs to handle it easily in its native format . . . P2 has already made a steady place in the professional field, that is hard to replace. It'll be nice to see if HMC150 will replace DVX as the camera choice for small indie movies, or will they go for HPX170 or HVX200? If I were to buy new low cost pro camera, it would be the HPX170 simply for the supported quality format and workflow it already has.
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Proffit . . excellent analogy. I guess this where I've been trying to direct my thoughts but unable to get these old brain cells to mix that up.

In a less than $1,000 consumer camera like the one Panasonic already has on the market at Best Buy, NewEgg, and other stores, it's a win . . AND . . Pinnacle Studio already works with it. However, in the Pro world without mirror RAID array . . who would want to pull together a costly crew (even for an inday meals are expensive) shoot for a couple hours or all day only to learn than when you pulled the card out of the camera OR plugged it into the laptop you killed ALL the data.

Also, I don't know about anyone else but ALL our still cameras use SD cards or SDHC cards and I personally have LOST several of them due to mounting, age, or whatever it is that causes those things to just suddenly become non functional. In fact, I've had two that the data is visible on it (we can see the images and look at them all day) but we not only cannot copy them off the card but the card won't format and is thus rendered useless for production purposes.
 
drdimento said:
Proffit . . excellent analogy. I guess this where I've been trying to direct my thoughts but unable to get these old brain cells to mix that up.

In a less than $1,000 consumer camera like the one Panasonic already has on the market at Best Buy, NewEgg, and other stores, it's a win . . AND . . Pinnacle Studio already works with it. However, in the Pro world without mirror RAID array . . who would want to pull together a costly crew (even for an inday meals are expensive) shoot for a couple hours or all day only to learn than when you pulled the card out of the camera OR plugged it into the laptop you killed ALL the data.

Also, I don't know about anyone else but ALL our still cameras use SD cards or SDHC cards and I personally have LOST several of them due to mounting, age, or whatever it is that causes those things to just suddenly become non functional. In fact, I've had two that the data is visible on it (we can see the images and look at them all day) but we not only cannot copy them off the card but the card won't format and is thus rendered useless for production purposes.
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I agree with a lot here, but one of the beauties is the synergy of the technology, G-Raid apparently has a new G-Raid mini drive that can be raid mirrored, so one problem is mostly fixed at least.
 
Daygola814 said:
Yes, please do if possible. I find it a little odd that there's no HMC150 but there's a working HPX170 somewhere. I would think the HMC150 would have been at the show instead.
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Actually, there is a 150. Found it about five minutes before the show floor closed. From what little I could tell, it does seem to be largely identical to the HPX170 in functionality.
 
John Trent said:
I've read there's a working prototype of the 150 at NAB (hope the person who wrote this wasn't mixing it up with the 170). If so, could Bob Diaz, Barry Green, or some other kind soul please put that baby on Cine-D and record some to an SD card and post some footage. Love to see how the new sensors handle the film look and low light. Please move it around and test how AVCHD handles motion at the highest bitrate. Thank you, guys.
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There is one there. You can't put it on any settings because the menus don't work. Didn't have an SD card so I didn't try recording footage; I don't know if recording is even available on this prototype, and even if it is available, there's no way to know what recording mode the camera is set in (and you can't change the mode, because the menus don't work!)

Trying to get footage from the prototype is probably a wasted effort. We would have no way to know what it was, what mode it was, how pre-release the codec is, etc.

This would be an adventure much better attempted at WEVA, which is in August and is very near to the anticipated release date of the 150.
 
proffit said:
Actually I don't get the idea behind HMC150, if it costs approx. $3500 or even more. Amateurs and regular shooters won't buy it, it's too expensive for an AVCHD camera
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Are you kidding? There's a $9,000 HDV camera out there. Sony's due to introduce even more HDV cameras that cost more than $7,000. Why wouldn't someone want a $3500 camera with a significantly better format?

What is the color space of HMC150's video, is it 4:1:1?
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4:2:0
AVCHD is a very heavy codec to edit, it'll take at least 2 years for computers and programs to handle it easily in its native format.
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Really? Someone will have to tell my EDIUS system that it's two years ahead of time. I can drop the files in EDIUS today and work with them at about 15fps on my laptop. On a quad-core system you could probably get realtime.

I just think P2 has already made a steady place in the professional field, that is hard to replace.
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Agreed. This 150 isn't aimed at those guys. This is aimed at event shooters, wedding shooters, longform recorders, lower-end professionals, prosumers, those people. People who want tapeless but who balk at the $900 cost of a 16GB P2 card. And it's aimed squarely at anyone who even thought that HDV would be adequate for their needs; heck, if you like HDV you should love AVC-HD.

(except that it's tougher to edit)

If I were to buy new low cost pro camera, it would be the HPX170 simply for the supported quality format and workflow it already has.
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Me too. Every editor on the market supports P2, and major huge applications like the complete AutoDesk lineup have new native P2 support. AVC-HD is going to have some growing pains in front of it.
 
mcsmooth said:
I would be curious to know if cameras like this export real-time non-compressed video to the outputs (hdmi, component).
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Of course. Use a blackmagic Intensity card to capture full 1920x1080 4:2:2 HD off the HDMI port, or monitor off the component outputs.
 
Matthew R. Rodwell said:
I heard that the 170 has a flip option, any word on this being on the 150 as well?
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Don't know for certain, but I would be startled if it didn't. I mean, the 150 has the same luscious waveform and vectorscope and three focus assists as the 170, so it would be really odd for it to not have the flip as well.
 
Agreed. This 150 isn't aimed at those guys. This is aimed at event shooters, wedding shooters, longform recorders, lower-end professionals, prosumers, those people. People who want tapeless but who balk at the $900 cost of a 16GB P2 card. And it's aimed squarely at anyone who even thought that HDV would be adequate for their needs; heck, if you like HDV you should love AVC-HD.

(except that it's tougher to edit)
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Example: I know someone who shot a wedding with one of the small AVC-HD cameras, calling its picture quality, "amazing." Like Barry said, those are the people this camera is aimed at.



Is the DVX being discontinued because of the HMC150 or will they still have the DVX out there as well? Sorry if this is answered somewhere else...
 
Daygola814 said:
. . . Like Barry said, those are the people this camera is aimed at. . .
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But if challenging to edit from a Hard Core edit (powerwise) then HDV would be the ticket AND this camera will have to be under $3000 since the competition is there (HDV) let alone I can't imagine there will be a lot of visual difference over the HDV right? Thus . . . it's a no brainer otherwise.
 
Daygola814 said:
Is the DVX being discontinued because of the HMC150 or will they still have the DVX out there as well? Sorry if this is answered somewhere else...
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I don't think there's a DVX100B anywhere in the booth. No real reason to show it, I mean, it's six years old and everyone pretty much knows what the DVX is, but still it'd be nice to give the ol' soldier a seat at the table.

I doubt it's discontinued; there's still a place for DV tape (which is why the HVX200A is still in the lineup).
 
Barry_Green said:
I don't think there's a DVX100B anywhere in the booth. No real reason to show it, I mean, it's six years old and everyone pretty much knows what the DVX is, but still it'd be nice to give the ol' soldier a seat at the table.

I doubt it's discontinued; there's still a place for DV tape (which is why the HVX200A is still in the lineup).
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Sorry, I didn't mean the DVX100b at NAB. I was wondering if they'd still sell the DVX100b since the HMC150 would be coming out.

I agree though. The DVX100b still has a place and frankly, I would be sad to see it no longer produced.
 
Does anyone following this thread have that Panasonic SD9 that was referred to in the early part of this thread or prferrably have used it extensively?

We are working on an HD expansion idea here and would like to know how useful it would be as a third camera wide/cut away usage? And would be cut with two HVX200's video A rolls
 
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