"PLACEBO" - Piatt Films

Norm Sanders said:
I wondered about that too, and for that VERY reason, I nominate this film to be DISQUALIFIED!!!! I mean seriously, Puck, do we really want this thing around for competition?? :nads: I think not. :banned:

HA! On a serious note, I didn't know this was a hold over from TwilightFest ... so was mine (script anyway).


Anyway, I DID ask myself that same question, but only briefly. In here, you could interpret any number of smaller things that may have been lost (freedom as they're prisoners for their own safety in that room, etc.) ... but the thing that really sunk in for me as to what he lost was his mind. He lost his sanity, and realized it only too late.
Click to expand...

Dammit Norman, you got here before I could finish watching again. Like I said it's subtle, but it's there and works on so many levels. Just because he's not up for most mentions (or any) of the word "loss", "lost" or "lose", doesn't lessen the impact.

I didn't watch it 4 times for nothing. Although the third time was with Jessica yelling "Holy ****" every 2 minutes...
 
Norm Sanders said:
Absolutely! EVERY young boy under the age of one-year-old should see the stabbing death of another person with a retractable ball point pen, lol.
Click to expand...


Dude, he seriously fought with me to watch this film. I have NO idea what got into him. Usually he's so empathic that he hates to see anyone get hurt and looks concerned when someone is screaming on tv... but he was enraptured by the entire movie.... maybe it was the quick flashes....
 
Please don't take my comments the wrong way. I abso-****ing-lutely LOVED this film. I just want to be clear about that. The subject of loss and the interpretation that we all take of it can be so abstract. I'm glad there was depth to this film and that it made me want to watch it over and over again and to share it, and it wasn't just me searching for the "loss". I LOVE this movie.
 
Well after watching, one thing is clearly evident, the amount of time and effort thats gone into every aspect of putting this piece together. In the first moments I thought bah another torture movie - that slid away a moment later.

IMO this could be a feature, and one that would attract an audience. Not just because you shot it so well, but the story has the depth to go that far. If I were you Id be out pimping this like hell. You dont need me to critique your piece.

Good luck with your future career.

Clear winner for me.

Oh and please dont add more info on the twist. It was clear enough.
 
Last edited:
WARNING!!! LONGEST POST EVER COMING UP! (Please use the restroom before resuming reading)


WOW! Man, I go away and do jury duty for a day and I miss ALL THE ACTION! WTF?!?! :huh:

Norm - Dude, I'll get you HD copies of everything...to be honest, when I watch this in HD it blows my mind. Not because of anything I did but because the mind-boggling genius of Eric Meisner and his lighting is amazing to see in such detail! Seriously. He is amazing.

Puck - Man, no offense taken any which way man! I was actually laughing harder and harder as I went through and read the dialogue between you and Norm...but mostly the fact that your 10-month old kid watched it! :shocked: It is sad I know, but I thought that was hilarious. (Now, you should probably move to a different country under an assumed name before CPS comes after you).
The funny thing is that my parents would not even finish watching it because they thought it was too violent! My Mom watched half of it and then refused to show it to Dad because she knew he wouldn't like it. :laugh: In fact, when we were shooting it Dad came to the set to watch and we were viewing playback on some action shots at lunch. I turned around and he was just standing there shaking his head back and forth and muttering, "Ohhhh. Too violent."
As far as the Loss theme...when they announced it I actually thought to myself, "This is perfect for the theme" because it definitely had subtle aspects of Loss but it wasn't as they said in the rules "a bunch of people standing around feeling sorry for themselves". :smile: I saw it the same way Norm did. He has lost his reality, his grip on sanity as well as his freedom in a sense.

MercurialVenus - Thanks! Do I know you from somewhere? From the comment I feel like I should but I looked in my iPhone contacts under "M" for MercurialVenus and didn't find anything... ;)

jessicalsin said:
Holy Hell....I don't even know what else to tell you. I'm not a techno-dork like all the other guys on here. (you guys know who you are!)..but I liked what I saw! Excellent work!
Click to expand...

Glad you liked it Jessica! I really enjoyed your performances in both of Puck's films and I would love to see more of you in the future. (Did that just sound creepy?!?) I'm glad a non-techno-geek liked it! I really want to make films that appeal to a broad audience (read: selling my soul to "The Man" and making entertaining fluff). :laugh:

filthrich said:
After watching this film again, actually about 3 times. I have to say that it is really a great film on so many levels. One of the best of the fest for sure.
Click to expand...

Man, you know I loved your film as I have already mentioned. There are probably several things you used in your film that I'll probably adapt and use in a longer version of "Placebo"...please keep making movies (and then email me when you do)!

Noel Evans said:
Well after watching, one thing is clearly evident, the amount of time and effort thats gone into every aspect of putting this piece together. In the first moments I thought bah another torture movie - that slid away a moment later.

IMO this could be a feature, and one that would attract an audience. Not just because you shot it so well, but the story has the depth to go that far. If I were you Id be out pimping this like hell. You dont need me to critique your piece.

Good luck with your future career.

Clear winner for me.

Oh and please dont add more info on the twist. It was clear enough.
Click to expand...

Noel, thanks for watching and for your generous compliments! I actually talked with Martin (the writer of this piece) about developing this into a feature script. He had some fascinating ideas on it so we will see... (Placebo - The Feature, Fall 2010). :smile: I think it is interesting that you got the twist and don't think it needs anything added. I worried early on that people might not get the tie-in with his name. That is why we added in him saying "Entry ??. My name is Cole Kinsella" several times throughout the film. I actually thought it was too much and so we reduced it to only 2-3 which I still thought would work. But maybe part of the problem for some people is HEARING the name does not necessarily click when they SEE the name written. Not sure.

I definitely want the viewer to get the ending otherwise...what's the point? But I also don't want to hammer it in their face. I personally prefer a subtle reveal/realization that makes you kind of "look" for it. So, I'll have to play around with that before I settle on something.

I'm curious if PUCK and NORM understood the twist and what was going on when they watched it? Also, the others who have seen it or commented on it that did not specifically mention it...did you guys understand the ending/twist or was it confusing?

Well, now that I have reached the 10,000 word mark I'm going to print this off and use it as the first draft of my next feature film! :laugh:

THANKS EVERYONE!!!
 
Oh dude, i totally got the twist and it sent chills up my spine all 5 times.... well maybe 4 times. When we read the name and then he said it at the end, it was like "oh ****". Great twist especially since Eddie had been apparently so vicious... now has me thinking, was that in fact how it was, or just how HE saw it? How different was everything else from his perspective?

I got it... I got it GOOOD.
 
Film looks great man, had a lot of fun watching this one. The whole genetic testing gone wrong thing has certainly been done but I loved this being from the angle of the control group in the experiments. Good stuff.
 
puckthemad said:
Oh dude, i totally got the twist and it sent chills up my spine all 5 times.... well maybe 4 times. When we read the name and then he said it at the end, it was like "oh shi*". Great twist especially since Eddie had been apparently so vicious... now has me thinking, was that in fact how it was, or just how HE saw it? How different was everything else from his perspective?

I got it... I got it GOOOD.
Click to expand...

Well I'm glad you "got it good"! :smile: And regarding your thoughts on what REALLY happened I like to think that what we see is basically his perspective...his reality of what happened. It would have been cool if we had shot everything "clean" and from the perspective of "reality" to be able to help with the reveal/realization but we didn't have time to shoot stuff two ways... Cest la vie! Thanks for your additional input!

Spear670 said:
Film looks great man, had a lot of fun watching this one. The whole genetic testing gone wrong thing has certainly been done but I loved this being from the angle of the control group in the experiments. Good stuff.
Click to expand...

Thanks for watching! Yeah, the premise has definitely been used before but I really liked Martin's take on it. It felt like an intriguing storyline that was well executed in the writing (which makes my job as lot easier)! As I mentioned much earlier in this thread Martin is a true professional in every sense...an amazing writer and a pleasure to work with!
 
Its much cooler this way without the clean edit. His own savagery was real enough and that's the story point that is driven home. If it leaves us wondering exactly what happened, then even better. For all we know Eddie could've just been having a cup of tea when along comes this raging lunatic! Poor Eddie.

Now I'm creating a whole backstory for Eddie in my head and its all your doing.
 
No...I think you are right! I think Eddie might well have enjoyed a cup of tea. And perhaps a scone or two. In fact, he's probably the nicest guy in the whole place! And now look what you have done to him!?! You've gone and killed him!

Sorry. It's late. I'm going to bed now.

For real.

So sleepy...







Must go to slee........
 
Your production value was really fantastic. Great lighting. Costumes. Makeup. The quick and stylized editing really kept everything moving quite well. It seems like you know how to really shoot for the edit. Good work.
 
To be honest, I never really noticed him saying his name, or at least it never stuck with me on what his name was ... to the point that when he was scrolling through the names, and his finger landed on one in particular, I was saying to myself "That must be his name ... crap, HE is the one that's been taking the psycho pills, and they were NOT placebos!!!" ... so I FULL expected the dead black eyes to be revealed to be normal, etc. So yes, it was a great twist ... enough so that I fully understood what had happened, etc.

Now, since you got me thinking, I did finally start to ask myself "So if HE was the crazy one, then why is the girl still alive & he's not killed her? All along I though he was with her, protecting her, but in hindsight I see she was terrified of him. If he fired so many shots at the guy coming at him, then why didn't that guy die, if he was normal???" I could really stat to spin & try to unravel this thing, but as Puck said, it's from HIS perspective on reality that we were seeing all this from ... so perhaps the gun had already emptied, and he was dry firing at that point, etc.

If you do a feature, these are all great things you can reveal & dive into more at that time ... at which point of course you'll fly me down & house me, so that I can do who-knows-what. :)
 
You know, I was reflecting on this film once again after a rewatch. All of my review from before still stands. I thought it was a very strong effort, but there's something about the story that feels overcooked and done to death to me. Now, like I said before, you freshened it up for sure, but it's not something that I feel I can really get into again, most likely because of the hyperactive use of chop-cut (derivative of jump cut) and flash editing. I just have difficulty watching things cut that way.

I'm sorry man, I didn't come back in here to rant about the film. It really is good work, but the real reason I came in here was to mention a term called, "nocebo." This is a real term coined in opposition of the placebo effect.

Essentially, it is the reverse of a placebo, creating a condition in a sense, where there wasn't one (similar to a hypochondriac's mentality), as opposed to a placebo, which actually is used to ease the mind and help it.

So my question is, with the title, did you intend to make people think that this was a film about HELPING the unfortunates that were picked, or a film in which the researchers were trying to evoke a NEGATIVE response with nocebos? Or is it merely something along the lines of Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment?

This just did not sit right with me the second time around and I can't get it out of my head. I hope this post doesn't come off as too much of a denigration of the film. I don't mean it that way. But it's just something to think about; kind of another angle of approach, you know?

Anyway, best of luck with the voting! And if this concern has already been raised in the thread, I do apologize. I haven't read the entire thing yet.
 
Last edited:
Lawsuit_Boy said:
So my question is, with the title, did you intend to make people think that this was a film about HELPING the unfortunates that were picked, or a film in which the researchers were trying to evoke a NEGATIVE response with nocebos? Or is it merely something along the lines of Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment?
Click to expand...

Hi, as the writer I should probably field this one. The answer is actually much simpler than what you suggest. I was inspired by the Stanford Prison Experiment, and I came across nocebos as I was researching the script but this story isn't really about either.

The "patients" are simply homeless people who were coerced into taking part in clinical trials, not because they had physical or psychological conditions that needed treatment, but because they would be desperate enough to sign up with few questions asked, and nobody would miss them if anything went wrong.

The Rosenthal Institute are testing psychotropic drugs to alter a subject's personality, perhaps to suppress fear or empathy in order to create more effective soldiers. I saw them as a sub-contractor or front for the military/CIA who would have full deniability if the project ever became public. Since it's a five-pager I didn't go anymore in-depth than this, but that's what I had in mind :)

So you essentially have half the subjects taking the mind altering drug, and half taking the placebo. The scientists monitor their behavior and interactions over a period of time, as well as conducting daily psychological tests to detect changes in personality etc

The premise is that Cole and the others on B wing become convinced that they are the control group. They don't notice any psychological effects from the drugs they are taking but they do notice a gradual change in the behavior of the other group. So they assume they are taking the dummy drug and that the other group are changing. This is in fact their own paranoia and a kind of shared psychosis that develops over time as they grow increasingly suspicious of the other group. This all escalates into a violent conflict which occurs before the film begins.

So that's the basic back story, nothing too clever, just a simple twist on a fairly well-worn premise.

I've been toying with a feature length version but I think the premise would need more depth and a stronger psychological angle to sustain interest over 2 hours.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, and the interesting discussion! :)
 
DerSpieler said:
Hi, as the writer I should probably field this one. The answer is actually much simpler than what you suggest. I was inspired by the Stanford Prison Experiment, and I came across nocebos as I was researching the script but this story isn't really about either.

The "patients" are simply homeless people who were coerced into taking part in clinical trials, not because they had physical or psychological conditions that needed treatment, but because they would be desperate enough to sign up with few questions asked, and nobody would miss them if anything went wrong.

The Rosenthal Institute are testing psychotropic drugs to alter a subject's personality, perhaps to suppress fear or empathy in order to create more effective soldiers. I saw them as a sub-contractor or front for the military/CIA who would have full deniability if the project ever became public. Since it's a five-pager I didn't go anymore in-depth than this, but that's what I had in mind :)

So you essentially have half the subjects taking the mind altering drug, and half taking the placebo. The scientists monitor their behavior and interactions over a period of time, as well as conducting daily psychological tests to detect changes in personality etc

The premise is that Cole and the others on B wing become convinced that they are the control group. They don't notice any psychological effects from the drugs they are taking but they do notice a gradual change in the behavior of the other group. So they assume they are taking the dummy drug and that the other group are changing. This is in fact their own paranoia and a kind of shared psychosis that develops over time as they grow increasingly suspicious of the other group. This all escalates into a violent conflict which occurs before the film begins.

So that's the basic back story, nothing too clever, just a simple twist on a fairly well-worn premise.

I've been toying with a feature length version but I think the premise would need more depth and a stronger psychological angle to sustain interest over 2 hours.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, and the interesting discussion! :)
Click to expand...

Glad you did so much research! I've also looked into Rosenthal and the manipulation of psychotropic drugs. Interesting stuff!

Anyway, everything you said is evident in the film and quite clear to me, but I was simply referring to the title and trying to pull more info out of it, not to criticize the film, but just as analysis, a simple break down. Glad you took it the right way. I'm always worried about bringing some of these things up out of fear of offense.

And this type of "shared psychosis" would indeed develop among the group, as evident in a number of studies, namely Stanford P.E.

Very interesting subject matter to tackle. I don't think that this particular event would make a good feature film without an immense amount of political, cultural, and sociological commentary or even satire. It seems like a concept meaty enough for a short but not for a feature. I'm sure we've all seen films that try to carry these themes before, but the ones that use a similar twist as you did here often end with a sort of, "...oh" feeling and carry little weight. The films that do it well are the ones that use this type of study as supplementary material to the core story.

So I think that this could actually be expanded into an even better and longer short film easily.

In the end, my only real grip is with the presentation of the film in the editing and some of the cinematography. The DP did a fine job, but I think this could be a good project to spring-board from and make something really authentic and unique. :beer:
 
johntwoods said:
dug your film.

very much so.

well done.


john.
Click to expand...

Woot woot! The great John T. Woods commented on our film! Seriously dude...everything I have ever seen you in has been ASTOUNDING! I don't know what you do but you have "got it". Thanks for watching!

armisiano said:
Your production value was really fantastic. Great lighting. Costumes. Makeup. The quick and stylized editing really kept everything moving quite well. It seems like you know how to really shoot for the edit. Good work.
Click to expand...

Coming from someone who has great taste/ability in all of these areas that means a lot!

Norm Sanders said:
... at which point of course you'll fly me down & house me, so that I can do who-knows-what. :)
Click to expand...

We would love to work with you some day! Too bad the U.S.A. is so darn big...if we had a public transportation system like Europe and smaller states we could all collaborate with each other on every film! :laugh:

DerSpieler said:
Hi, as the writer I should probably field this one.
Click to expand...

Thanks for jumping in and answering that one Martin! I was going to take a stab at it and then realized I had no idea what your intentions were when you wrote it! :laugh: I appreciate the input...quite interesting and the research it is based in I think makes it even more fascinating!

ZazaCast said:
OUCH... My brain is on fire!
Click to expand...

ZaZa, I apologize but at this point management has specifically stated that we are to give no refunds (or money for seizure medication)!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top