GH5 Panny: Orange is the new Red?

I know that youtubes are a complete crap shoot sometimes, but three totally separate videos, by three separate people with access to expensive cameras, matching my results exactly? I think panny red is orange. I don't think any normal people will notice or care in viewing - no one has ever mentioned it to me. It's just something I noticed
 
I'm not sure this if is entirely the situation here or not but as a old school video guy red was the color most likely to go nuclear in broadcast video and it had to be subdued a lot to help prevent that.

raw stills are meant for a full RGB spectrum but we have to keep in mind these cameras are designed to shoot regular everyday rec709 video. Panasonic does more to meet the broadcast standards of any other DSLR out there. From a cinema camera perspective that may not be the best choice but when it comes to shooting rec709 video that will look ok on just about any type of rec709 TV then perhaps Panasonic is subduing the reds for a very good reason. I think Canon makes a mistake trying to match video color to its still color because they don't take into consideration the limited range of reds of rec709 or how different types of displays may handle a non broadcast safe red. At the end of the day we are using a camera designed for rec709 video. The Panasonic lut is designed for a rec709 workflow and Panasonic being the great experienced broadcast engineers that they are likely try very hard to stick with the limitations of what is best for rec709.

I had a similar problem when I did a lot of 3D animation that was transferred to tape or DVD. Any pure reds would tend to freak out on most TVs and we had to filter or reduce red down to a broadcast safe level. Basically pure 255,0,0 red was a no no.
 
wwjd said:
I know that youtubes are a complete crap shoot sometimes, but three totally separate videos, by three separate people with access to expensive cameras, matching my results exactly? I think panny red is orange. I don't think any normal people will notice or care in viewing - no one has ever mentioned it to me. It's just something I noticed
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I agree that the GH5 reds are orange a lot of the time however those shots were overexposed and the red does go more to orange under those conditions. Maybe its the reason Thomas is mentioning. Looking at vectorscope between my Sony and the GH5 the Sony is way off the scale for red but GH5 is inside red target. Now I know how to fix it is less of a problem. Make sure I do not overexpose and simple hue vs hue, hue vs saturation adjustment in Resolve at least using V Log.
 
wwjd said:
k, this is more about my GH4, but curious if GH5 and S1H have the issue.

REDs lean over towards the ORANGE coloring

Noticed this immediately when I got my GH4, but worked around it okay. ALSO noticed it in a recent S1H vs P6K... the P6K had a RED caboose, while the S1H had a red-orange caboose.
I've noticed these colors on 3 different calibrated monitors, from 3 manufactures as well as TV and phone playback testing.

Kinda wonder, does the EVA1 also have orangey red?
I don't see this topic brought up very often. I may have brought it up before... but now with the S1H in full swing, kinda shocked I still see it.

Experiences?
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Did you ever mention what profile you are using on the GH4? The profile can make a big difference.
 
wow my post vanished?

anyway, I tried a bunch and settled on "NATURAL" on the GH4. Also have vlogL but worthless at 8-bit, and the reds in it were better using their LUT, but its the same sensor, same number corrections, wish they'd fixed it in the profile. sad to see this issue in newer, higher end cameras like S1H
 
wwjd said:
wow my post vanished?

anyway, I tried a bunch and settled on "NATURAL" on the GH4. Also have vlogL but worthless at 8-bit, and the reds in it were better using their LUT, but its the same sensor, same number corrections, wish they'd fixed it in the profile. sad to see this issue in newer, higher end cameras like S1H
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I don't think we know all the situations involved in the S1H tests on YouTube. Plus like I mentioned earlier pure red typically is not a good thing with rec709 video. At least that used to be the case with analog. Displays are much better today and since virtually all displays are now digital they likely handle pure red much better than tube based TVs ever could. The reality however is that pure red technically isn't broadcast safe and even with DVD it was always best to stick within the limits of rec709 and broadcast safe. I'm wondering if this is what is going on with Panasonic. Panasonic tends to be more of a broadcast champion and it wouldn't surprise me if they were aggressively trying to limit red to a broadcast safe level. Maybe they are going a tad too far with it. I don't know. I never really put much thought into it or cared. This is why in your case V-log may be more accurate while Natural is purely designed for broadcast safe rec709 video. Another reason why log is an important consideration. Its not just to get a tad more dynamic range out of the camera.

I do know the S1H is highly regarded for its quality and color accuracy and wouldn't put much stock in the random opinion of a few YouTubers. Getting professional advice from YouTube is about as effective as asking your neighbor for heart surgery advice. Unless your neighbor happens to be a heart surgeon and cool with free advice.
 
Another issue is that what we perceive as colors are not absolutes. Everybody to some degree registers hue in slightly, and sometimes largely different ways. I know that at times I have issues with accurately distinguishing between certain green and blue hues in a particular lighting situation, and my partner is often telling me that a certain color I'm describing is not that but a related color. Purple, mauve, shades of brown. I've stopped trying to argue that that is what I see. So throw in the original YouTube posters concept of colors adjusted without the benefit of calibrated monitors, the various codecs used to compress displayed footage, and the observer's viewing situation (monitor, ambient viewing lighting and personal color interpretation) and you arrive at nothing that is absolute.

So orange may be the new red, or it might not.
 
this is why I always use scopes. I'm 99.9999999 percent sure this color offage is scopeable but not somewhere I can test that at this time.
 
wwjd said:
this is why I always use scopes. I'm 99.9999999 percent sure this color offage is scopeable but not somewhere I can test that at this time.
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I can assure you that when I watch an actor walk across the stage and his coat turns from red to orange and back to red you do not see it on the scopes with everything else happening on stage. To correct one has to track and use hue vs hue keyframes.
 
Ron Evans said:
I can assure you that when I watch an actor walk across the stage and his coat turns from red to orange and back to red you do not see it on the scopes with everything else happening on stage. To correct one has to track and use hue vs hue keyframes.
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Are you sure this isn't color temp related? Lights are rarely the exact same color temp that is even more true for stage lighting. Especially if there are any specialty lights for color effect. Something as silly as light from an exit sign could pollute the color temp of a small part of the stage.
 
Yes I think it must be an effect the only thing is none of the Sony's shooting the same scene have the issue with stable red throughout the scene. Not a one off happens frequently. Less so using V Log which is one reason I have switched to shooting V Log most of the time.
 
Ron Evans said:
Yes I think it must be an effect the only thing is none of the Sony's shooting the same scene have the issue with stable red throughout the scene. Not a one off happens frequently. Less so using V Log which is one reason I have switched to shooting V Log most of the time.
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That I don't have an answer for. Maybe its due to how aggressive Panasonic is at keeping colors broadcast safe. I honestly don't know. Camera profiles do a lot of calculations however and perhaps the Sonys are also doing better to average results for those profiles to make them more forgiving. Again I honestly don't know. Just guessing since I don't own a Sony camera.

This might explain why V-log L is better on the GH5. Less in camera processing so you are getting a bit more of what just the sensor is capable of. A bit closer to the accurate results we get with raw stills.
 
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