I've heard that rumor. But fixed Scarlet 3K will have visually lossless compression, higher definition, and a high-quality lens, and it still won't cost $10K unless fairly well kitted out. Besides, how would lossless compression fit in with H.264 AVCCAM? Wouldn't you need a P2-recording capability? It can already handle 4:2:2 output via HD-SDI or HDMI.
Panasonic When it Counts Roadshow
- Thread starter smelni
- Start date
The thing is, we are discussing a very specific camera. There are plenty of high end cameras for "professionals" who have the budget. That market has plenty of choices already, and this is not what the af-100 is addressing itself to. The need here is for a lower cost camera for people who don't have the budget. So making yet another high-priced piece of gear is kind of missing the entire point.
As a side point, every industry needs a steady supply from feeder systems. It can't be that the entire industry is only composed of instant out of the box professionals. You need young talent to come up from below - so that one day they can become professionals. And these people also need gear. There is no reason to patronize people who are starting out and have little money but a lot of passion and perhaps a lot of talent as "need not apply" if they scrape and scrimp and go hungry and put rent money into play. That's how people start out - to one day join the professionals with a bigger budget.
There is no such thing as set in stone "professional gear". Technology evolves and that's how progress gets made - things that were once only available to pros, become cheaper. Features migrate down in cost. Same thing happens in every industry - cars, computers, cameras. What was once only available in "pro" gear, becomes available to all budgets. No reason to sneer at people because they are hoping Panasonic wants to do that yet again with the af-100, as they did with the original DVX. There is nothing wrong with that expectation.
I know one thing. People who sneer at others who don't have the money, are often merely hacks hung up on status - I'd rather work with a young talented and passionate person, even if they have no money, than a hack with a big budget.
So let us not be judgmental here. This in the end is a marketing decision. It all depends on how Panasonic wants to position this camera. If they decide that they gain more sales and ultimately make more money by catering to a new generation of filmmakers, they'll keep the price low - that's how you get loyalty from users that eventually pays off down the line when people remember and keep using your gear when they migrate to bigger budgets - people use what they are familiar with... that's how FCP got a foothold in the editing world vs Avid. Price. It's smart to think a bit longer term. And judging by the response here, I have an inkling that Panny will make a great deal more money by many, many, many more sales to people who'll pay 6K, than holding out for 10K and getting only a fraction of such sales. But that's just me. Either way, it's a marketing decision, and nobody should tell anybody what they should be aiming for and who is a professional and what to do with their rent money.
Jesse Brauning
Well-known member
Hey, I don't have the money either.
I'd put myself in the same boat - if it was cheap enough, I'd buy it more readily.
Where I disagree with you is where you say that it would be a good idea for it to be cheaper:
I'd much rather have an excellent camera (In a brand new class) than a good idea that turned out to be crap. Panasonic needs to do this camera right, whatever it costs.
Also, let me say again, 6 grand was never an official number from Panasonic, so why should we treat it like one? It was never going to be 6 grand. It was way too early for them to set a price then anyway.
The idea of having a fully featured pro video camera that accepts M43 lenses is mind-blowing. I would hate to see Panasonic make it too cheap and ruin it.
PS. I use Avid, and would never touch FCP.
I'd put myself in the same boat - if it was cheap enough, I'd buy it more readily.
Where I disagree with you is where you say that it would be a good idea for it to be cheaper:
I'd much rather have an excellent camera (In a brand new class) than a good idea that turned out to be crap. Panasonic needs to do this camera right, whatever it costs.
Also, let me say again, 6 grand was never an official number from Panasonic, so why should we treat it like one? It was never going to be 6 grand. It was way too early for them to set a price then anyway.
The idea of having a fully featured pro video camera that accepts M43 lenses is mind-blowing. I would hate to see Panasonic make it too cheap and ruin it.
PS. I use Avid, and would never touch FCP.
docrock
Active member
How in the world did this thread turn in to 7 pages of "It BETTER not cost 10K!!!"?????
Come on ladies and fellas...We've all been around the block, and Noel touched on it a page or two ago....Remember the HVX200? It was announced as well as an "Under 10k" camera before it hit the market...and when it popped, it was right at the 6k mark!
Good Grief! Just a two word blip from a marketing rep who was probably told to not quote price, and it turns in to (over) 60 posts of "They better not...or I'm leaving>...."
Give it some time! And to compare it to unreleased products...AKA, RED, seems pretty unreasonable...any of us that have kept an eye on the now, nearly 3 year promise of Scarlett...it just seems silly!
Maybe there are more refinements/additions since NAB...maybe there are a couple models to choose from (P2/SDHD), or maybe Panasonic changed their mind after realizing how incredible this camera is compared to the market
Who knows...but under 10K? That could be 50 bucks!
Is there anything else that was said at the gathering that was compelling? As far as Panasonic and the future? LOL>>> Just seems crazy this thread is 7 pages long of folks weeping about price...and it hasn't even been verified!
Gotta Love Al Gore's Internet....amazing place
Come on ladies and fellas...We've all been around the block, and Noel touched on it a page or two ago....Remember the HVX200? It was announced as well as an "Under 10k" camera before it hit the market...and when it popped, it was right at the 6k mark!
Good Grief! Just a two word blip from a marketing rep who was probably told to not quote price, and it turns in to (over) 60 posts of "They better not...or I'm leaving>...."
Give it some time! And to compare it to unreleased products...AKA, RED, seems pretty unreasonable...any of us that have kept an eye on the now, nearly 3 year promise of Scarlett...it just seems silly!
Maybe there are more refinements/additions since NAB...maybe there are a couple models to choose from (P2/SDHD), or maybe Panasonic changed their mind after realizing how incredible this camera is compared to the market
Who knows...but under 10K? That could be 50 bucks! Is there anything else that was said at the gathering that was compelling? As far as Panasonic and the future? LOL>>> Just seems crazy this thread is 7 pages long of folks weeping about price...and it hasn't even been verified!
Gotta Love Al Gore's Internet....amazing place
ethan cooper
Well-known member
My how the times have changed. I feel old when I read things like that. Use to be a time if you showed up with less than a 2/3" ENG cam you'd be laughed out of the building.
Oh, and about the under $10K thing, I think a lot of you are getting worked up about nothing. Calm down till you hear it from a more credible source.
I do have to laugh at the guy saying he wanted nothing less than global shutter for under $10K. Good luck with that.
It may seem funny now. But people thought the HVX200 was impossible, then the Red One. Something amazing is impossible until it happens. And then the people who scoffed feel foolish. I don't think a consumer-level HD global-shutter CMOS sensor will happen this year. But maybe soon.
Pietro Impagliazzo
Well-known member
I know but AF-100 would still have a larger sensor, that can be an advantage over Scarlet 2/3".
However, if we're considering DOF characteristics, 4/3 @ F4 and 2/3" @ F2.4 would roughly be the same.
So yeah... The long waited Scarlet all the way.
dmpsk8
Well-known member
thats a smart business model, lol. Never say never
I think that we will be in for a surprise in specs. Much has happened in the last few months. Also lets not forget Canon should be announcing the 1Ds MarkIV very soon and probably its own take on the video interchangeable lens HD camera with DSLR sensor size.
I think we'll probably see a bump in spec, so the bump in price. Also Panasonic just announced a 4/3 3D lens. This immediately turns the AF100 a 3D ready camera out of the box, no need for 2 cam setups. Just saw this in DPreview.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072801panasonic3dlens.asp
I think we'll probably see a bump in spec, so the bump in price. Also Panasonic just announced a 4/3 3D lens. This immediately turns the AF100 a 3D ready camera out of the box, no need for 2 cam setups. Just saw this in DPreview.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10072801panasonic3dlens.asp
How in the world did this thread turn in to 7 pages of "It BETTER not cost 10K!!!"?????
Good Grief! Just a two word blip from a marketing rep who was probably told to not quote price, and it turns in to (over) 60 posts of "They better not...or I'm leaving>...."
Gotta Love Al Gore's Internet....amazing place
I have to disagree respectfully with your comments.
People are simply expressing what price point translates into a buying decision for them -- feedback that Panasonic should value, especially given the economics of today and the competition out there.
This is good feedback for Panasonic from very targeted user base.
Agreed. 10K overshoots the HVX/HPX bracket that this camera was directed at a few months ago.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yeah, I've been offline for a couple of days and just came back to find this.
I think that whoever said "under $10,000" probably didn't have a clue as to what the unit is supposed to be priced, and so they said something "safe". And as Noel pointed out, $6k *is* "under $10,000".
I would be shocked, floored, flabbergasted, and dismayed if they've changed the price upwards (without a significant boost in capability). I don't think they've ever done that, and I certainly don't expect them to start now, not with what may be their most highly-anticipated product ever.
Maybe they've added lots of stuff we don't know about yet, or maybe the person who said the price got it wrong and has now started a firestorm for no reason.
As far as I'm concerned, it'll be "under $6k" until Jan Crittenden Livingston says otherwise. And I've put in a message to her to please clarify this for us.
I think that whoever said "under $10,000" probably didn't have a clue as to what the unit is supposed to be priced, and so they said something "safe". And as Noel pointed out, $6k *is* "under $10,000".
I would be shocked, floored, flabbergasted, and dismayed if they've changed the price upwards (without a significant boost in capability). I don't think they've ever done that, and I certainly don't expect them to start now, not with what may be their most highly-anticipated product ever.
Maybe they've added lots of stuff we don't know about yet, or maybe the person who said the price got it wrong and has now started a firestorm for no reason.
As far as I'm concerned, it'll be "under $6k" until Jan Crittenden Livingston says otherwise. And I've put in a message to her to please clarify this for us.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Wait -- did they say $2300?!?! Because last I heard was $2895.
Barry_Green
Moderator
But it's not a DSLR -- no stills capability at all. Or are they announcing that it does stills now?
We knew these parts...
I expected these, so it's good to hear they're confirmed, and if there's a vectorscope that's almost a certainty that it will also have the waveform monitor too. Awesome.
Well, as said before, I expect that the real price will still be "under 6k". Unless they've added something major to it, which -- if they had, I would have expected them to say so, so...
Barry_Green
Moderator
I can 99% guarantee you that it will be
They've as much as said that it will be.
Do you "have" to budget in for the nano? AVCCAM at 21mbps is pretty solid. I think a lot of people who don't have experience with it, are going to be quite surprised. Like I've shown before, it's superior to Sony's XDCAM-EX recording format. If you absolutely must have intraframe or 4:2:2, then a nano (or something like it, like a KiPro) would be necessary, but I would certainly stop short of saying that you "need" a Nano, at least until people experiment with the native recording and determine that for themselves.
Will Clegg
Veteran
They did not say anything about stills. BUT, I wouldn't be shocked if they included it. They were really pushing the fact that the HMC40 does 10MP stills as well as HD video. (I laughed a little because I would never, ever use the stills from HMC40 for a client, but still, if using the 4/3" sensor instead of 1/4"...)
I really wish I had just approached the guy who said "under $10k" for the AF-100 and pressed him about it a little bit. I was pretty shocked to hear him say it, but I have no idea if he was just throwing it out there or if he really knows. To be clear, the info on the AF-100 was sketchy at best, compared to all the other products they were pushing. It was a consultant from Knoxville, Tennessee giving the presentation on AVC CAM products, someone asks how much the AF-100 will be, because it's the only camera without a price on the slide, and the presenter calls to a suit in the back, ad he says something to the effect of, "Oh yeah, we had that question this morning too. It's looking like under ten thousand." That's it. End of discussion. As your (not-so) trusted liason, I should have asked the suit for some more detail once the presentation was over!
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walnutcrunch
Well-known member
I'd doubt the stills thing. It was made very clear to me that this camera was Panasonic professional video, taking these new sensors and making a professional HD (not 4k) video camera around them. The goal was to optimize for HD video. Full stop.
that's what I remember as well.
I believe I saw it in video interview at NAB2010.
Let's see what shakes out.
I believe I saw it in video interview at NAB2010.
Let's see what shakes out.
Barry_Green
Moderator
For the record, the "$10k" thing is officially squashed. I asked Jan to come in here and make a statement, and she said she will do so when she has a chance, but she did confirm to me that there has been no change in price, what she said in April of it being around $6K is still accurate.