Eric Coughlin
Veteran
Yeah, I kind of like the clean and sharp look even for a lot of narratives. I thought The Hobbit looked great.
VaricamLT: Panasonic VariCam LT
- Thread starter Camera Expert
- Start date
- Status
I don't think it's really a case of the cameras being any different, it's the same sensor. I've seen some V35 stuff look overly saturated as well, it's very capable of pushing it's colour up into more of a broadcast style. I think the main problem is that a lot of the work is only being shot in WYSIWYG mode on the Varicam, and if you want to go more muted with the colours then you have to shoot log, or adjust the saturation of your Rec 709. It's just a case of the LT being handed to DPs for a day, without them having any chance to get to know the camera's actual capabilities.
Does it look like it was shot on film?
Yes. I also have huge problems with the inside shots in that church or whatever location that was in the first Varicam 35 demo. Very video like quality. What can I say? It looks video to me. Stuff shot on the Alexa or F35 for example can look very close to film. But this couldn't be more the opposite.
If you think The Hobbit looked great then I can understand why you would like the Varicam. I think The Hobbit looked awful.
filmguy123
Veteran
any 3rd party options for the Panny Shoulder mount? (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...u_vshl2g_cinema_style_shoulder_mount_for.html)
Totally get the classic strategy of selling accessories at huge markup, HOWEVER... I can't quite swallow $1400 for a shoulder pad.
Likely any upcoming (or already existent) options around the couple hundred dollar point for this?
Totally get the classic strategy of selling accessories at huge markup, HOWEVER... I can't quite swallow $1400 for a shoulder pad.
Likely any upcoming (or already existent) options around the couple hundred dollar point for this?
filmguy123
Veteran
Also, re: the film look, it's very difficult for me to get a good feel of this. I don't know if its just a lot less interest in the Varicam than the Arri cameras, but it is WAY easier to find a ton of footage shot by owner/operators on ARRI, etc. And their marketing pages are far better - Arri's show reels are all stunning.
Why is it so hard to find good Varicam footage? I have a hard time believing its the camera itself (though it may be), but it does seem to be lacking a lot of sample footage in competent hands. Fire & Ice is by far the best one out there. Is it just the type of shooters who are drawn to the Varicam brand (broadcast background) and so shoot in a different style (coloring, focal lengths, camera movements, content, etc.)? Also, I have difficultly finding things other than a ton of nature shots for the Varicam. It's out there, just limited.
WHERE is the sample reel like this one for the Alexa Mini: https://vimeo.com/124820201 -- because THAT knocks my socks off. And it's not just the content, it's the gorgeous organic looking images and rolloff, it's the perfect filmic softness that's not "soft" just beautiful, and the way the motion blurs just in that natural, organic way. The panny (not the camera per se, just the footage I can find online) does not share some of these same characteristics... at least not that I can find?
Camera, or DPs?
On paper, it would seem the Varicam should be able to produce incredibely similar results for half the price. True or false? Well I dunno, I can't friggin tell because even after 2 years post Varicam35 launch I'm having a hard time finding compelling footage, or a lot of it. Why? Any help or links?
Why is it so hard to find good Varicam footage? I have a hard time believing its the camera itself (though it may be), but it does seem to be lacking a lot of sample footage in competent hands. Fire & Ice is by far the best one out there. Is it just the type of shooters who are drawn to the Varicam brand (broadcast background) and so shoot in a different style (coloring, focal lengths, camera movements, content, etc.)? Also, I have difficultly finding things other than a ton of nature shots for the Varicam. It's out there, just limited.
WHERE is the sample reel like this one for the Alexa Mini: https://vimeo.com/124820201 -- because THAT knocks my socks off. And it's not just the content, it's the gorgeous organic looking images and rolloff, it's the perfect filmic softness that's not "soft" just beautiful, and the way the motion blurs just in that natural, organic way. The panny (not the camera per se, just the footage I can find online) does not share some of these same characteristics... at least not that I can find?
Camera, or DPs?
On paper, it would seem the Varicam should be able to produce incredibely similar results for half the price. True or false? Well I dunno, I can't friggin tell because even after 2 years post Varicam35 launch I'm having a hard time finding compelling footage, or a lot of it. Why? Any help or links?
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Run&Gun
Veteran
For some reason, I can't play YouTube videos lately on my Mac, so I can't see the Fire and Ice footage, BUT I agree, the other sample reel looks like video. Now I know comparing my tape and P2 Vari's to this one are apples and oranges, but I almost always like the 24 frame content out of those cameras. Even shooting slow-mo(60/24), they still look good. Whereas another camera I have, the F55, slow-mo can look very much like video(look at almost any slow-mo sequence on Big Bang Theory). I think part of it may be the higher rez and how "clean" the image is, but I just watched the Revenant in 4K projection and it looked damn good and like "film", just insanely clean. Only two shots that really jumped out and came across "video-ee" to me.
Now, I'm not saying "video" necessarily looks bad, at least half of what I shoot is 60P "video", BUT we all know that this footage is supposed to look like "film" and to me the cadence and motion and "look" aren't there(the lighting DOES NOT help. Looks like old soap opera lighting). It looks like very clean video.
Now, I'm not saying "video" necessarily looks bad, at least half of what I shoot is 60P "video", BUT we all know that this footage is supposed to look like "film" and to me the cadence and motion and "look" aren't there(the lighting DOES NOT help. Looks like old soap opera lighting). It looks like very clean video.
Yeah, 4x5.
indiawilds
Veteran
Even after a year I have been drooling over this demo. To that extent the VariCam LT footage didn't look that great to me. Those varied from good to ok with one being outright terrible. The same company going from producing the finest demo footage that I have ever seen (with VariCam 35) to the nastiest demo footage in VariCam LT is quite a bit of "dynamic range".
Having said that, the inconsistent results may have been because of the demo cameras that are yet to be fine tuned for optimal results. And the production versions often give better results.
Most of us often attack the camera. It is time that we look inwards ie. at our own competencies or the lack of it. These days in general the top end cameras are all good. Tweaking the software aka "colour science" of the camera and at times tweaking the ears of the DP and/or colourist can produce marvelous results.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
I love the green frog. It is 'real' colours. Stunning.
It is really simple to take such an image and 'degrade' it in post to make it look like faded old film or an F35.
S
It is really simple to take such an image and 'degrade' it in post to make it look like faded old film or an F35.
S
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Even after a year I have been drooling over this demo. To that extent the VariCam LT footage didn't look that great to me. Those varied from good to ok with one being outright terrible. The same company going from producing the finest demo footage that I have ever seen (with VariCam 35) to the nastiest demo footage in VariCam LT is quite a bit of "dynamic range".
Having said that, the inconsistent results may have been because of the demo cameras that are yet to be fine tuned for optimal results. And the production versions often give better results.
Most of us often attack the camera. It is time that we look inwards ie. at our own competencies or the lack of it. These days in general the top end cameras are all good. Tweaking the software aka "colour science" of the camera and at times tweaking the ears of the DP and/or colourist can produce marvelous results.
The V35 and the LT have the same sensors and processing and will produce all but identical images. The V35 can record in better codecs, but those differences would be largely eradicated by Vimeo compression.
Your summary is spot-on.
Did the riders in the late 19th - early 20th century say, "Sure, this car widget is pretty nice but it just doesn't have the horse carriage mojo"?
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Without commenting on cost it is worth noting that this pad appears to have a top slider which is really important for balancing different lenses. Most 3rd party rigs don't have this. The Amira does have a slide too.
You can see proper placement on GBs shoulder in the next post..
Last edited:
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Interesting chat about the Vari and others with G Boyle. Also interesting comments on AF on the C300/2 (which I alluded to earlier as a 'game changer' for the small crew)
https://vimeo.com/158017639
https://vimeo.com/158017639
Jim Martin
DVXuser Sponsor
This is Panasonic's accessory and it is not a huge markup that you think...the days of big markups on accessories are long gone. With the cameras having a small markup and the accessories having a markup not much better, it is getting increasingly difficult for "brick & mortar" stores to keep their doors open.
Prior to WWI, Paul Daimler (Gottlieb's son, who passed on by then) designed an armored car for the Austrian emperor Franz Joseph. Presented at a military parade, the car engine noise spooked the aged emperor's horse. The emperor expressed his indignation to the designer and the order was not placed.
Clearly, Paul needed that fake horse's head as the hood ornament.
PS. And here's another curiosity - by that time, the British already had armored cars ... made by the English branch (actually, a spin-off) of Daimler with the engines imported from the original Daimler plant in Germany.
The P2 cards though... they're a bit painful priced, for what they are. RED have the same kind of markup on their media though. I really want to love this camera, if the image clicks with me, but the limitations in media and lack of 4K ProRes are problems. The 7Q+ solution is there though. I don't love it, as it affects the compactness of the camera, though it is a nice viewfinder.
- Status