GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017

[aldolega]

OIS in every lens.

I for one wouldn't want this to ever happen. I'm no optical engineer but AFAIK there are lots of optical designs which can't accommodate OIS, and would have to be changed and the lens' performance compromised to do so. Of course, some designs allow for OIS just fine, and in those cases, great! But I'd rather have every lens be the best it can be, optically, and figure out stabilization externally if necessary.

Not to mention that paying for IBIS once is cheaper than paying for OIS over and over again, and IBIS+non-OIS lens is smaller and lighter than normal sensor+OIS lens. And of course IBIS can be turned off if you're some sort of purist about it, but with OIS+IBIS working so well together (when properly engineered), I don't see why you'd want to.

 

[roxics]

The rule of thumb in the photo-video world - if something in the product looks hideously crippled and not dependent on hardware but software, then it's 99% due to the cozy relationship between Japanese manufacturers.

I heard that Mr. Yakamoto was flirting with Mr. Shinzo's wife at a party, that's the entire reason Mr. Shinzo called up engineering and told them to stick it to Mr. Yakamoto by giving us 10 bit 4:2:2 output on the GH4. I also heard they've since made up and their special relationship is back on track.

 

[Mike Krumlauf]

It would be kinda neat if they moved the GH line with the 5 into the varicam to be honest. Would be pretty neat for a Varicam GH5.

 

[Thomas Smet]

THAT is the problem I have with it. Panny gives us a lesser solution, and many folks will stop asking for the better one - OIS in every lens.

OIS is far from perfect. Look at the 12-35 f2.8 and 35-100 f2.8 lenses as an example of this. The 14-140 so far has the best OIS of any lens I own but it is also far from perfect.

Stabilization can also only do so much to combat really horrible shooting practices. It is not designed to be a miracle worker but to prevent people from vomiting when watching the video. If OIS or IBIS isn't working well for a particular person they seriously need to ponder a better way to shoot video.

 

[Illya Friedman]

I've played with the combination of both OIS and IBIS on the GX85 and it's really impressive. I have expressed to engineers and product managers that I would like to see such features in any successor to the GH4.

Guess we'll all have to wait and see.

 

[DLD]

The latest rumor is that GH5 will be teased at or around PhotoKina but the shipments and the final specs won't be known until 2017. Blame the earthquake that damaged Sony's sensor plant.

 

[Jim Simon]

figure out stabilization externally if necessary.

There's the rub. It's just not as good externally. It needs to be done internally.

 

[Jim Simon]

OIS is far from perfect. Look at the 12-35 f2.8 and 35-100 f2.8 lenses as an example of this. The 14-140 so far has the best OIS of any lens I own but it is also far from perfect.

I own all three. They all work exceptionally well.

 

[Jim Simon]

Stabilization can also only do so much to combat really horrible shooting practices.

I don't argue that it can. I only argue that OIS does it better than IBIS.

 

[Jim Simon]

I have expressed to engineers and product managers that I would like to see such features in any successor to the GH4.

THAT is the problem I'm talking about. People not asking for OIS from the lens makers.

 

[-griffy-]

There are already countless lenses out there without OIS, lenses I and plenty of others already own, lenses whose internals make it impossible for OIS to be feasible. IBIS is a nice solution for adding any stability. Remember these are not only video cameras, and stabilization doesn't only apply to video. Any shutter speed leeway that added stabilization can give me for stills with the primes I and others already own, or the Sigma 18-35, or any of the other dozens and dozens of lenses out there, is only a net benefit.

Just dismissing the feature outright, and calling for OIS in every lens made is kind of absurd. That's a fantasy land since it ignores the physical and cost limitations of certain types of lenses, and ignores the benefit it can provide existing lenses.

 

[stoneinapond]

I don't argue that it can. I only argue that OIS does it better than IBIS.

But you've already confessed to not personally using the latest IBIS. So how can you argue anything.

 

[brudney]

This discussion is ridiculous. Jim, please stop spamming the thread. Simply don't use IBIS and let people enjoy that crappy technology.

BTW, G8 is supposed to get 422 8 bit video by default. Nice.

 

[DeadEyesSmiling]

How soon after the GH5 announcement do y'all think it'll be before we know for sure that the Speedbooster XL will work with it? It seems like the XL was retooled almost specifically for the GH4, so I'm hoping all the technical/dimensional requirements needed to take advantage of that extra bump over the Ultra will be there.

-DES

 

[aldolega]

How soon after the GH5 announcement do y'all think it'll be before we know for sure that the Speedbooster XL will work with it? It seems like the XL was retooled almost specifically for the GH4, so I'm hoping all the technical/dimensional requirements needed to take advantage of that extra bump over the Ultra will be there.

-DES

Good question. Probably won't be answered until the camera is actually released next year. I doubt any of the pre-release shooters will be allowed to report on this. It'll probably be up to some brave regular joe when the camera gets to customers.

I would assume it would still work fine along the Z-axis (front to back/clearing the sensor and shutter), unless Pana change the filter stack thickness or the shutter's thickness (although I would assume the GH5 will have the new shutter from the GX85, and the XL reportedly works fine with that), both of which seem unlikely.

My question would be the clearance on the X and Y axes- the XL booster not only protrudes deep into the mount, almost touching the shutter, but it also "fills" the "cone" formed by the baffles on the sides, that taper towards the sensor from the mount. I assume that only the sensor and shutter move during IBIS operation, not any of the other stuff inside the mount, and thus nothing would collide with the booster. But if the baffles move, or if there's a raised lip on the edge of the shutter/sensor housing and the IBIS's range of movement brings that within range of the booster, there could be a problem. But these also both seem unlikely.

I think the better question is, based on the supposed specs (i.e. IBIS, and no crop in 4K), do you still want to use the XL with the GH5? I see two problems:

-The XL is optimized for sharpness in the GH4's cropped 4K area, and the tradeoff for that is that it isn't as sharp (as the regular .71x booster) outside of that area (so, the 1080p area, and photo area past that). Which maybe we just don't/can't notice as much at 1080p (don't remember any comments one way or the other for photos with the XL). At 4K it might be more apparent. And with IBIS moving the sensor past even that area of the image it might get softer still, or...

-The XL might not put out an image circle big enough to cover the sensor's range of motion during IBIS, even with a full-frame lens. And it almost certainly would not with some APS-C lenses, like for instance the Sigma 18-35, since that already vignettes on the GH4 with the XL, in 1080p or photo mode, at certain focal lengths. If there's anyone here familiar with action-sport/skateboard filming, this would probably give an effect similar to the "jiggly vig(netting)" effect you get with a fisheye adapter on a fixed-lens zoomy camcorder (VX1000, DVX100, HVX200 etc) when you forget to turn off the IS- black corners that shake and jiggle around as the IS works.

I guess the best way to answer this right now would be to mount an XL booster on the JVC LS300, as that has an oversized sensor. Then we could see where the image starts to get soft, or cuts off with different lenses.

Or, someone page Brian Caldwell to come in here and set us straight.

 

[DLD]

It seems to me that, to get a GH-5 perfectly compatible Metabones, an entirely new model will have to be designed, even if GH-5 will also allow for a center-crop 4K.

PS. Speaking of center crops, I am a bit surprised that more models don't have the JVC LS-300 type multiple aspect ratios. GH-4 has it for the anamorphic shots but there's no reason to limit this to a couple of sizes and ratios.

 

[hgf4]

I've played with the combination of both OIS and IBIS on the GX85 and it's really impressive. I have expressed to engineers and product managers that I would like to see such features in any successor to the GH4.

Guess we'll all have to wait and see.

Yeah, from my perspective the combination of OIS with IBIS is pretty amazing. I'm glad Panasonic is including OIS in some primes.

 

[Thomas Smet]

If the GH5 will shoot 4k with the full sensor than think of it as if you are shooting HD with the GH3 or GH4. HD mode already uses the full sensor so you only need to determine which of the Speed Boosters work with the HD modes on previous cameras to know if they will work with a full sensor 4k mode on the GH5.

Considering the XL is supported on the GH3 which only shoots HD with the full sensor I would assume it will work with the GH5 but myself or anybody else on here can't answer that for certain.

Keep in mind if you need the super35mm look than the XL is designed to make that happen only with the special GH4 4k crop. any other sensor readout will give a size that doesn't match super35mm. The Ultra would give closer to the super35mm look on a full m43 sensor readout if one is striving for a super35mm look.

 

[walkaboutcamera]

full m4/3 sensor is 20% wider than 4k uhd and less than 20% for 4k dci, not enough to make a difference in the look. man i wish people would take a moment to do the math if they don't have the experience.

 

[DeadEyesSmiling]

Good question. Probably won't be answered until the camera is actually released next year. I doubt any of the pre-release shooters will be allowed to report on this. It'll probably be up to some brave regular joe when the camera gets to customers.

I would assume it would still work fine along the Z-axis (front to back/clearing the sensor and shutter), unless Pana change the filter stack thickness or the shutter's thickness (although I would assume the GH5 will have the new shutter from the GX85, and the XL reportedly works fine with that), both of which seem unlikely.

My question would be the clearance on the X and Y axes- the XL booster not only protrudes deep into the mount, almost touching the shutter, but it also "fills" the "cone" formed by the baffles on the sides, that taper towards the sensor from the mount. I assume that only the sensor and shutter move during IBIS operation, not any of the other stuff inside the mount, and thus nothing would collide with the booster. But if the baffles move, or if there's a raised lip on the edge of the shutter/sensor housing and the IBIS's range of movement brings that within range of the booster, there could be a problem. But these also both seem unlikely.

I think the better question is, based on the supposed specs (i.e. IBIS, and no crop in 4K), do you still want to use the XL with the GH5? I see two problems:

-The XL is optimized for sharpness in the GH4's cropped 4K area, and the tradeoff for that is that it isn't as sharp (as the regular .71x booster) outside of that area (so, the 1080p area, and photo area past that). Which maybe we just don't/can't notice as much at 1080p (don't remember any comments one way or the other for photos with the XL). At 4K it might be more apparent. And with IBIS moving the sensor past even that area of the image it might get softer still, or...

-The XL might not put out an image circle big enough to cover the sensor's range of motion during IBIS, even with a full-frame lens. And it almost certainly would not with some APS-C lenses, like for instance the Sigma 18-35, since that already vignettes on the GH4 with the XL, in 1080p or photo mode, at certain focal lengths. If there's anyone here familiar with action-sport/skateboard filming, this would probably give an effect similar to the "jiggly vig(netting)" effect you get with a fisheye adapter on a fixed-lens zoomy camcorder (VX1000, DVX100, HVX200 etc) when you forget to turn off the IS- black corners that shake and jiggle around as the IS works.

I guess the best way to answer this right now would be to mount an XL booster on the JVC LS300, as that has an oversized sensor. Then we could see where the image starts to get soft, or cuts off with different lenses.

Or, someone page Brian Caldwell to come in here and set us straight.

Thanks so much for the detailed answer, those are all good things to consider. Basically, I'm thinking that if the rumors are correct, and we'll see a GH5 announcement this month but no camera until 2017, then the smart thing to do is pick up a GH4 when the announcement price-drop happens, and then get a GH5 when they're out. I'm just wondering if all of the additional accessories I'll be getting with the GH4 (AC, battery grip, batteries, speedbooster, YAGH, etc.) will still work with the GH5. Here's hoping...!

-DES