David W. Jones
Veteran
I'd wager the sensor is different, that's about it.
GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017
- Thread starter Dan Keeble
- Start date
Batutta
Major Contributor
What I don't get is why the lag is so terrible at 24hz, and almost negligible at 60hz. If it was a processor issue you'd think it would be the other way around.
I haven't. I've only seen it in use on YouTube.
It's not usable. There may be times it works fine, but there are times when it really doesn't work, times when the OIS did work.
That potential failure makes the entire technology unacceptable. (Much like V-Log with 8 bit recording. I've seen shots where it looks great, and shots where it's unusable.)
OIS is the solution we need, here. Adding IBIS would only make the entire scene worse, as many people would accept the bad solution (IBIS) and stop asking for the good one (OIS).
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With the GX85 Panasonic has "dual stabilization" where the camera IBIS and lens OIS work together to stabilize the image.
While this is definitely not the best demo of "dual stabilization" (using the cheapo 12-32mm kit lens), it does give some idea of what it can do...
stoneinapond
Veteran
Look, it won't make your footage look like it's mounted on a gimbal. As the Dingo states, Panasonic has implemented dual stabilization which primarily helps with reducing micro jitters. It can also work in situations where the camera is subjected to large movements but is focused on a relatively steady object. I've done it. And yes, some of these things are a crap shoot where the outcome may or may not be what is required. In those cases, as an experienced professional you make sure you get what you need, either by mounting on a tripod, mounting on a gimbal, or in the case of V-Log, lighting correctly.
combatentropy
Veteran
How long do the big companies, like Sony, Panasonic, and Canon, take to develop a new camera? Does anyone have inside info? I'm sure it varies, but maybe an average?
I'm talking about from the point that they simply decide that they are going to make a new camera. They may have a rough idea of what it will be and look like, a vague list of features and ideas on a piece of paper ("The C700 will be a shoulder-mount camera that takes image quality to the next level beyond the current C-series cameras") but no one has done any CAD drawings or anything yet.
I have spent some time inside large corporations, and the length of time they take to do anything is shocking. Things much simpler than building your own camera, like upgrading some software program, take a year or so. Things get delayed for stupid reasons.
I don't know exactly what I would do with this information. But for some reason, I feel it would be helpful to know whether some camera that I'm just now seeing a press release for likely was designed 5 years ago instead of 2 years ago. I mean, it would make more sense. Most cameras that come out seem like what I was suggesting several years ago, even when my suggestions are limited to what is technologically possible at the time (like "take this feature from this camera and that feature from that camera....")
I'm talking about from the point that they simply decide that they are going to make a new camera. They may have a rough idea of what it will be and look like, a vague list of features and ideas on a piece of paper ("The C700 will be a shoulder-mount camera that takes image quality to the next level beyond the current C-series cameras") but no one has done any CAD drawings or anything yet.
I have spent some time inside large corporations, and the length of time they take to do anything is shocking. Things much simpler than building your own camera, like upgrading some software program, take a year or so. Things get delayed for stupid reasons.
I don't know exactly what I would do with this information. But for some reason, I feel it would be helpful to know whether some camera that I'm just now seeing a press release for likely was designed 5 years ago instead of 2 years ago. I mean, it would make more sense. Most cameras that come out seem like what I was suggesting several years ago, even when my suggestions are limited to what is technologically possible at the time (like "take this feature from this camera and that feature from that camera....")
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I've seen it. The IBIS part just doesn't work very well.
That's what makes it unacceptable. These features need to be reliable.
I've read (here), a couple of years as a project.
My take is that a particular model design takes place concurrently with the general technological advancement - 40 guys design the camera but a different department is working on sensors and the camera project managers pick a ready-for-market sensor somewhere half way into the camera development.
Most large companies, as we know from the comments of people posting here, additionally have different divisions such as pro and consumer, fixed lens vs. ILC, etc. The relationships between these departments vary too, which is why one can see a new feature on a lower end model but not on a higher end, etc.
Peter Berry
Well-known member
I dunno...This was a 2X mag view of the pair, and my old eyes went nuts looking at the top band, not at all on the bottom. And I've seen other footage that looks a lot better than my GH4/12-35-2.8 with it's pretty good OIS...
Pete
stoneinapond
Veteran
This is so reminiscent of when you were crying about nobody delivering zoom lenses with impossible specifications at a particular price point. Some of this stuff is physically impossible. Like I said, you need reliability, buy tools that are available today that fit your requirements.
ectobuilder
Veteran
I would recommend that you try the Panasonic GX85, I use it as if it was on a monopod and it is flawless. Panasonic has something good going on here. It works great with IS and non-IS lenses, native and non-native.
Sony's IBIS? Now that's a totally different story.
Agreed. I've been using a GX85 the last week or two and the IBIS in it is better than what I had with the a7sII. It's remarkable how smooth and stable the camera is. I might make the switch over from Sony if the GH5 has IBIS and 10 bit internal 4k with good auto focus. I never thought I would go micro 4/3 but the GX85 is impressive, especially at the price point.
clifford maxwell
Member
The GX85's IBIS is just fine. Any issues I've encounted to date have been EIS related. The electronic stabilization can be beneficial in some specific circumstances but I mostly leave it turned off due to the increased crop anyway.
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Given that there are lenses which come pretty damn close, I don't believe what I'm asking for is physically impossible. It just hasn't been done yet. Adding IBIS only gives more folks a reason to stop asking. What we need is a lot MORE folks asking.
They often don't exist.
They could, they just don't. So I keep asking, and trying to convince others to ask as well. 'Cause I can't be the only one who wants them. Contrary to my mother's claims, I'm just not that special.
I've seen results where it was not flawless, where it looked like too much Warp Stabilizer.
That such possibility exists makes the entire option unusable. Like the banding, blocking and magenta artifacts of V-Log. They might not show up in every shot, but that they could show up makes it unusable with an 8 bit codec.
THAT is the problem I have with it. Panny gives us a lesser solution, and many folks will stop asking for the better one - OIS in every lens.
clifford maxwell
Member
Did it not seem logical that it may be the in-camera warp stabilizer (EIS) that is causing it and not the IBIS?