GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017

FT5 rumor. I wonder if that would allow 10-bit 4K 4:2:2 at 60fps internal @ end of 2017? (anyone have thoughts?) If so, that's really something.

My wishlist that I don't think will come true but would make me buy the camera in a heart-beat:

Larger High Res 1920x1080 Flip out LCD screen, so not so reliant on external viewer
1-stop DR improvement (why can BMPC hit 14
1-stop low light improvement
Clean ISO at 1600


Why is it that the BMC Pocket Camera can get a solid 13 stops dynamic range and the GH4 even with V-log can't match that performance? Hoping to see the GH5 in V-log surpass what BMC has accomplished on the small sensor (any enlightenment here would be welcome)
 
filmguy123 said:
Why is it that the BMC Pocket Camera can get a solid 13 stops dynamic range and the GH4 even with V-log can't match that performance? Hoping to see the GH5 in V-log surpass what BMC has accomplished on the small sensor (any enlightenment here would be welcome)
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It's a common question that's asked about cameras, and the usual answer is because the sensor is limited or the company is not willing to provide you certain specs in that particular product. Maybe the GH4 is able to push out more stops, but it's being held back. (I don't know.)

Also, Blackmagic is a bit of a different breed than other companies.
 
filmguy123 said:
Why is it that the BMC Pocket Camera can get a solid 13 stops dynamic range and the GH4 even with V-log can't match that performance? Hoping to see the GH5 in V-log surpass what BMC has accomplished on the small sensor (any enlightenment here would be welcome)
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Because the BMD Pocket camera only has 1920x1080 pixels on that smaller sensor. Sensor size itself doesn't mean squat. What matters is the physical size of each pixel (photo site) that can collect light. The BMD sensor is smaller than the GH4 but it is far fewer pixels which means each bucket is much larger and better at capturing light. The BMD has photo sites about 6.5 microns in size. The GH4 when shooting cropped UHD has photo sites about 3.6 microns in size. This is for horizontal size only. The Gh4 has insanely smaller pixels then the BMD does.

For a bit of comparison the 5D mk3 has photo sites that are 5.9 microns wide.
 
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This makes sense, thank you.

Makes me wish they would release the equivalent of the A7S - a 12mp version sensor of the GH5 that performs worse on photo resolution, but better on DR, sensitivity, etc. Perhaps a GH5P and a GH5V (Photo/Video) - both options on both, but each tuned respectively.
 
Jim Simon said:
What about the BMPC which can still pull 12 stops out of it's 4K sensor? Or the URSA Mini which pulls 15?
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I don't know the exact pixel sizes of those cams offhand, but they both have fewer pixels than a GH4, and their sensors are much larger, so I would assume their pixels are much much larger than the GH4's. Even with the circuitry for global shutter taking up space on the BMPC's sensor.
 
Also, sometimes there's a difference between written specs and actual performance. Most would agree that ARRI provides everything they claim to where as the results/findings from companies like Blackmagic or RED are more questionable.

BMPC/URSA/URSA Mini has more like 11 stops in the real world (my opinion).

4.6K URSA Mini (another man's opinion) may be more around 14 stops - http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/01/...-stops-of-dynamic-range-and-best-used-in-raw/
 
Jim Simon said:
What about the BMPC which can still pull 12 stops out of it's 4K sensor? Or the URSA Mini which pulls 15?
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Those sensors are larger which means the photo sites are larger. 5.5 microns wide per photo site on the 4k production camera. Still much larger than each photo site on the GH4 sensor and about the same size as a Canon 5D mk3.

With that said BMD cameras are actually kind of horrible in low light. Sensor or photo site size doesn't always equal a 1:1 of how much light it can capture. There are a lot of other factors at play like the technology used. A sensor size and its density alone can never be used to judge sensitivity. Only tests can prove what a sensor can actually do.
 
filmguy123 said:
This makes sense, thank you.

Makes me wish they would release the equivalent of the A7S - a 12mp version sensor of the GH5 that performs worse on photo resolution, but better on DR, sensitivity, etc. Perhaps a GH5P and a GH5V (Photo/Video) - both options on both, but each tuned respectively.
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Agreed. I'm not a fan of bumping up the pixel count on the GH5. Detail is something the GH4 rarely gets criticized for and many of us would have rather seen the two only real short comings of the camera addressed. Sensitivity and dynamic range. To be fair however the increase doesn't make a huge hit on the photo site size. 3.34 microns vs 3.6 microns. That little bit of difference should affect it too much and the sensor have greatly improved in other areas to pick up that slack and then some. If the GH5 did have a lower pixel count sensor the photo sites would have been 4.2 microns wide (to support DCI 4096) so not a huge amount better either. Still if that could increase a stop of sensitivity and DR I would take that for sure. Thats what we get for using a photo camera for video I guess.

A7S has photo sites 8.4 microns wide. The FF sensor itself has nothing to do with the sensitivity of the A7S. It is those behemoth sized photo sites.
 
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My guess is that we're going to see 1 F-stop better low-light performance with the GH5 over the GH4, and probably the same for dynamic range. Which is good enough for me. I already like the image my GH4 produces, so I'm certain the GH5 will be a nice upgrade for me.
 
TheDingo said:
My guess is that we're going to see 1 F-stop better low-light performance with the GH5 over the GH4, and probably the same for dynamic range. Which is good enough for me. I already like the image my GH4 produces, so I'm certain the GH5 will be a nice upgrade for me.
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*If* we actually get that - 1 stop better in both - including in Vlog, properly recorded internally, in 4K (or 1080p up to 180fps)... then yeah, I'm stoked.

My concern is low light and DR are going to be pretty much the same, 180fps will be for 720p and 120p for 1080p, and the 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 won't be out until late 2017 when the 400mbps bitrate upgrade is released.

Looking forward to 10am.!

Regarding the Photo site sizes, very helpful! Thanks for that info. That's crazy (and a bit frustrating) to think that we could potentially be given even a 2K version of the GH5 with photo sites rivaling the A7S :/

Personally I would be pretty thrilled with the option of a 2k-2.7K GH5 with ~6 micron photo sites... A little room for zooming/recropping/stabilizing/down-rezzing for 1080p delivery, with way better sensitivity and DR. I'm only interested in 4K for post-production reasons, I doubt I'll be delivering anything in 4K for years.
 
ozmorphasis said:
Here you go:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../panasonic-lumix-gh5-first-impressions-review

Was not expecting waveform and vectorscope. Very welcome additions!
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Thanks! Pretty piss-poor that V-Log L is still an additional $100 by the looks of it, considering it has 10bit internal recording out of the box. Aside from that, it seems like a solid update.

Also, they didn't mention recording format. I assume it's got to be something AVC Ultra related, to get 10bit 4:2:2 compression onto an SD card?

Cheers,

Paul :)
 
Vesku said:
Waveform / Vectorscope sounds very nice but the big question is will the GH5 show aperture, shutter speed and iso in video modes. It would help judging exposure even more than scopes.
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Huh? The GH4 does that in video mode. Hit the DISP button until it shows up. Or do you mean, not have it disappear after a minute of shooting? Touch any button after a minute and the info will reappear.
 
Batutta said:
Huh? The GH4 does that in video mode. Hit the DISP button until it shows up. Or do you mean, not have it disappear after a minute of shooting? Touch any button after a minute and the info will reappear.
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Have you ever tried auto exposure S, A or P or auto iso ?
 
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