GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017
- Thread starter Dan Keeble
- Start date
Is depressing reading on other places on the internet how quick the anti-MFT trolls are out, and of course their first red herring is "but it sucks at low light".
This low light argument reminds me of the megapixel race, sure there was big benefits from going from 2 megapixels to 5 megapixels, 12 megapixels, but then at around 16 megapixels to 24 megapixels range... the arguments got a *lot* weaker. And for 99.9% of users we don't need 50 megapixels!
Ditto low light, not being constrained by 50 ISO film is *AWESOME*, then getting to 200 ISO... great! And now we can do workable 800 and 1600 and even 3200 ISO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyeKIOV-EZw
Let's assume GH5 carries on and is one stop better even than that? How is that not a very workable ability to handle?
Do we NEED to have clean 100,00 ISO?? Nah, that is over the top in nearly all cases.
I'd rather pass on the unnecessary over the top extreme high ISO capabilities and have instead the well polished and extensive range of features that the GH5 will have.
This low light argument reminds me of the megapixel race, sure there was big benefits from going from 2 megapixels to 5 megapixels, 12 megapixels, but then at around 16 megapixels to 24 megapixels range... the arguments got a *lot* weaker. And for 99.9% of users we don't need 50 megapixels!
Ditto low light, not being constrained by 50 ISO film is *AWESOME*, then getting to 200 ISO... great! And now we can do workable 800 and 1600 and even 3200 ISO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyeKIOV-EZw
Let's assume GH5 carries on and is one stop better even than that? How is that not a very workable ability to handle?
Do we NEED to have clean 100,00 ISO?? Nah, that is over the top in nearly all cases.
I'd rather pass on the unnecessary over the top extreme high ISO capabilities and have instead the well polished and extensive range of features that the GH5 will have.
I have never expected a Micro 4/3 camera to compete with the low-light performance of a Full Frame camera. The solution is to simply light your shots when you can, which generally produces a better end result.
So close, but...I consider anything slower than 2.8 unacceptable for video use.
Illya Friedman
Well-known member
I've played with the GH5 body that is being shown, but I'm not allowed to comment on specs not yet officially released.
I can say that if you want to be one of the first to get hands on with the camera, the only place you can pre-order is at @hotrodcameras for a deposit of $19.99. Hot Rod will also have access to the first working prototype.
I can editorialize and say that anyone who likes the GH4 will NOT be disappointed!
I can say that if you want to be one of the first to get hands on with the camera, the only place you can pre-order is at @hotrodcameras for a deposit of $19.99. Hot Rod will also have access to the first working prototype.
I can editorialize and say that anyone who likes the GH4 will NOT be disappointed!
Since GH5 will have 4K 60p, they should be able to have the dual exposure too. Even 5D MKIV has it, albeit only in the 1980p mode.
What about folks who are a little disappointed with the GH4. (100 Mb/s for 4K???) Will we also like the GH5?
Barry_Green
Moderator
What's wrong with 100Mb/sec for 4k? It works fine in the DVX200, and presumably will also work fine in the forthcoming UX180, UX90, and HC-X1. It's certainly a whole hell of a lot better than trying to cram 4K into 60 Mb/s like other manufacturers try to do.
Illya Friedman
Well-known member
Great question.
I believe so, but I'll qualify that by saying...
The GH4 is a sub $1500 camera that frankly amazing. Every day it is delivering more resolution then some $50K+ cameras and is regularly intercut with 35mm film and all the top digital cinema cameras used for major motion pictures, TV and commercials.
It was once described to me as a bear riding a bicycle.
Sure the bear will not win the Tour De France, but it's the very fact that the bear is riding the bicycle at all, that is what's amazing.
I read plenty of negative comments, and will say that under the framework of what the GH4 is and what it's delivering, a small amount is valid. That leaves probably 99 times out of 100 for the criticism to be off base. You don't want to get me started on the asinine stuff that I've read about GH-series cameras (and every camera for that matter.)
If you are unhappy with the performance of the GH4 it is possible you may be one of those people who are never satisfied. Likewise, if you are a "full frame or nothing" kind of shooter then you definitely be disappointed.
If you are a reasonable person who is relatively impressed by the current state of camera technology, then you will be over the moon with the GH5, it's simply incredible. I'll be writing about specifics at CamNoir.com when the embargos are lifted.
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Thomas Smet
Veteran
Here is where I find this statement interesting. Those who test external recorders say there isn't enough difference between ProRes and the internal 4k 100mbps. Yet others claim the 100mbps is not enough. Which one is it?
I tend to agree and disagree with both sides just to add a bit of extra confusion here. It really depends on what you want and need and if you need video to visually look good or if you need lots of extra data for heavy grading and VFX work. On the VFX side many would argue ProRes isn't even good enough so pretty much any internal camera format on the planet would be considered not good enough for that type of work so the GH4 is not unique here.
It's just not enough data. The image breaks up a bit on tough scenes.
And when you add that second 2 in 4:2:2...we just need a much higher bitrate for 4K. I'd love to see 400 Mb/s in the GH5, easily doable on a V60 or V90 card.
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That's definitely not me. I was blown away by the image quality of the Moon Trial 7 hack on the GH2 the first time I saw it. I literally said "Wow!" out loud when watching that footage. (And I do mean the real definition of "literally", not the wrong one people use when they should be saying "figuratively".)
I'm also renting a BMPCC in a couple weeks, which has an even smaller sensor. (Man is that footage impressive.)
While I LOVE the ergonomics of the GH4, I just haven't yet seen anything come out of it that makes me say "Wow". I don't find myself bragging about the quality like I did with my hacked GH2.
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Mark Williams
Veteran
Agreed, when I shoot a lot of fast moving water scenes 4k at 100mbps struggles sometimes. 1080p 200mbps does not have a problem.
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Thomas Smet
Veteran
Without a doubt 10bit 4:2:2 will use more than 100mbps. You also have to be careful not to fall into the bitrate trap when it comes to codecs. 100mbps in one encoder is never the same as 100mbps in another encoder. If the realtime encoder is improved on the GH5 80mbps could actually look better than 100mbps on the GH4. The numbers alone are never ever a valid form of judgment or comparison.
How the GH4 encoder looks has less to do with the 100mbps than it does the fact that it is one of the first realtime capable 4k cameras on the market. It takes some pretty serious engineering to build an encoder that can suck in that much data and compress it at 30 frames per second in 4k. Much like the hacks on the GH2 how the encoder is optimized can make a big difference.
Why do you say 400mbps? Do you have a scientific reason why it should be 400mbps or are you just throwing out numbers? Would the 400mbps even be any better than 350mbps or 382mbps? IPB encoding has diminishing returns the higher you go with the bitrate and there comes a certain point where there is no longer visually anything to gain by going over a certain point. What that point is can not really be said since encoders don't just rely on a bitrate amount to determine how good it will look. Lots of other factors can go into this. This isn't like a bank account where one can say for sure $100.00 is better than $80.00. An encoder quality is based on so many other factors. It is really more like what is better $100.00 or £80.00 (pre Brexit of course). Think of encoder optimization and build quality like exchange rates. sometimes one currency is worth more than others and sometimes not. Looking at the numbers alone doesn't tell the full story of what you really have.
Ha, love that analogy. Thanks for relaying it to us.
FWIW, the newly announced Olympus OMD1 MKII is 237 Mbps in IPB.
But, what if the bear could win Tour de France while also juggling a beach ball and playing on his iPhone?
Barry_Green
Moderator
The bear analogy was stolen/borrowed/adapted - repurposed, riffed off of (without attribution) Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784):
"Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."
We stand on the shoulders of giants and few things are truly new, when it comes to folk wisdom
...
"Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."
We stand on the shoulders of giants and few things are truly new, when it comes to folk wisdom
...