GH4 Panasonic GH5 coming in 2017

This camera could go in many different ways. It could be a major step forward to just another evolution. Panasonic was asking for input here a few years ago and it looked like they were putting some energy into improving the GH line. I think this is an important release for them as the GH4 turned a lot of heads but was quickly equaled or surpassed by new Sony models. I agree the GH5 does not need to see in the dark or be a wonder camera but I do think Panasonic would be wise to add the features video pros want to see. External recorders are not the answer most want to see. I will suggest again that given the interest in this line by pro video people that they need to create a video centric version like a GH5-V that can be quite a bit more expensive if it needs to be.

I will pay $2,500 for a GH5 that actually includes what we want to be in there. Here is what I would want:

- XLR 24bit audio option. Maybe a single inout in a battery grip? OR a mini on the body?
- 10bit internal recording. Would be ok if 10bit was only for 1080p
- great video autofocus
- no line skipping or binning for any resolution.

I just want a workhorse, not another still camera that shoots video. Maybe I am asking too much but it seems it is possible.
 
Shenan said:
It seems that the only way that they can make significant improvements in low light from here on out without reducing resolution would be to employ BSI. I don't know that anyone except for Sony and Samsung have the technology for it....
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Panasonic is among several companies that do. It's actually not that rare a design but most of it is done for the mobile phone market.

TheDingo said:
That requires dual-pixel sensor technology which is a Canon ONLY feature right now. I doubt that you're going to see much improvement in AF with the GH5.
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Actually, Samsung has it also on some of their smartphones. Panasonic has that Depth From Defocus (DFD) technology. I assume it can be sufficiently improved with each generation. Sony AF on A6300 and A7RII seems to work pretty well with their own native lenses also.

TheDingo said:
We now have SDXC UHS-II U3 cards with a write speed of 250 MB/sec ( 2,000 Mbps ) so h.265 compression with it's high processing power requirements may not be necessary. ( if the camera's processor is weighed down by a high compression CODEC then there are less processing cycles to run everything else )

I would be happy to buy new memory cards if the GH5 required it.
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This week, Samsung anounced its new UFS cards, which have SSD specs and thus can enable an in-camera Raw recording. Now, I doubt GH5 will have that but the new V-rated (V30/60/90 MB/s) ought to be sufficiently fast for the high speed H264. Meanwhile, the current generation 14 nanometer chips - which weren't available when GH4 was introduced, let alone developed - should easily crank out H265, if so required.

In his most well known NAB'16 interview, Matt Frazier (most visible US marketing rep from Panasonic) seemed astonished that someone might want a 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording. His response was, "But what about all those external recorders??"

PS. Some info on the UFS, if anyone has missed it.

http://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news...ards-are-here-to-speed-up-your-drone-filming/
 
DLD said:
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In his most well known NAB'16 interview, Matt Frazier (most visible US marketing rep from Panasonic) seemed astonished that someone might want a 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording. His response was, "But what about all those external recorders??"
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Memory speed and price being what it is, who wouldn't want the option of switching between 8 bit and 10bit internal recording?
 
In an interview I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivx4ZfpiwT8 he said he was asking for internal 10-bit recording on the GH5 but did not know if it was possible. He also said he only shoots V-Log at 10-bits using an external recorder due to the limitations of the in-camera options.

Sounds like he is pretty dialed in to what folks want.
 
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Bassman2003 said:
In an interview I just watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivx4ZfpiwT8 he said he was asking for internal 10-bit recording on the GH5 but did not know if it was technically possible...
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Well, of course, it's technically possible! There are a number of cameras out there that will even record Raw without costing that much more. What Panasonic has to decide is the step on their hierarchy of products that GH5 will be given. At the moment, they don't really have a narrative capable camera at under ~ $20,000 (Varicam LT). They do have a bunch of 4K run&gun cameras though and they may not want GH5 to steal too much of their thunder.

Plus, with the cost of the external recorders/monitors plummeting, they're probably thinking that a large portion of their customers will have one regardless and that duplicating its features will unnecessarily add to the price of their main product.
 
I should not have used the term technically as all he said was "possible". So I took that out of my post. How long can you try to hold back technology? If you try too long somebody else will do it and steal your thunder. But the major problem is their V-Log creation is quite hampered at 8-bit and I do not think you can assume buyers will have or want to use external recorders.
 
Bassman2003 said:
I should not have used the term technically as all he said was "possible". So I took that out of my post. How long can you try to hold back technology? If you try too long somebody else will do it and steal your thunder. But the major problem is their V-Log creation is quite hampered at 8-bit and I do not think you can assume buyers will have or want to use external recorders.
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IMO, they should include the 10-bit internal. With all these new cards out, they don't even need to offer H265 but a higher bit rate has to help - note that all hybrid Sony and Fuji cameras are also 100 Mbps, with Canon offering greater speed in DC and D X2 but with a different codec. Samsung was beating all of them with the 80 Mbps in H265 (and now, hacked at 120 and 160) and Samsung was doing it in 2014 for $1,300!
 
10-bit internal would be great. Pro res would be ideal. And please fix the 24p hdmi output lag. It really makes using an external monitor awkward, and sounds like you are in an echo chamber when monitoring audio.
 
DLD said:
Matt Frazier (most visible US marketing rep from Panasonic) seemed astonished that someone might want a 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording. His response was, "But what about all those external recorders?"
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External recorders are great, but when you want to shoot with 2 or more cameras it becomes a pain in the *ss in terms of the cost and the battery power to run a bunch of external recorders.

For me, 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording would give me a big reason to stay with Pansonic GHx cameras over jumping ship to a Sony Full Frame camera. I think both Sony and Canon would have to be dragged kicking and screaming to release a mirrorless/DSLR camera with 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording, so Panasonic has an opportunity to distinguish themselves from their competition and give us a great reason to stay with their cameras.
 
Right now, a lot of cameras - current and yet unannounced - are in a holding pattern due to the Kumamoto quake and the subsequent Sony sensor plant shutdown. That might play out thusly - the cameras that were supposed to be announced in August/September and then be shipped for Christmas may not be ready until 2017. The manufacturers, to say nothing of the retailers, don't want to lose the holiday season sales. That may force them to keep offering current models without any future announcements until after the New Year's. This isn't likely to effect the high end pro cameras but anything that can be defined as "consumer" could be. And that gives manufacturers another half a year to finalize their specs.
 
roxics said:
Why? It's doing less processing.
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I have always assumed that it's a dedicated feature that has to be hardwired into the camera.

i.e. it's pulling/passing image data in a different manner than standard internal video formats

...If that's not the case, then why don't all cameras offer RAW sensor output ?
 
RAW (video) wasn't really a thing a few years ago. Blackmagic cameras certainly made it much more popular.

Still, I think many people would prefer to shoot 10-bit 4:2:2 ProRes if they had the choice...but having the option of RAW externally become a standard for cameras sounds good to me.
 
They'll need to have an SDI out, like on FS5 and FS700, or the latest HDMI (2.0a). I don't think they'll do it on a ~ $1,500 camera when Varicam LT doesn't have Raw (yet) and I don't think they'll do it on GH5. The lowest priced camera currently capable of the internal 4K Raw is URSA 4K, which retails for $3,000.

From the technical point of view, change the media interface to these new UFS cards and you're in.
 
TheDingo said:
I have always assumed that it's a dedicated feature that has to be hardwired into the camera.

i.e. it's pulling/passing image data in a different manner than standard internal video formats

...If that's not the case, then why don't all cameras offer RAW sensor output ?
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Manufacturers have left out raw recording probably because commodity cards (CF and SD) have been too slow. In five or 10 years, raw may be widespread.

Raw isn't different so much as it is less. The signal goes through the same first steps as the codec formats. It's just redirected to the card before later stages like debayering, color correction, and compression. It doesn't need "to be hardwired into the camera," as you can see from hacks like the Adromeda project for the DVX100 and Magic Lantern for Canon DSLRs.
 
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combatentropy said:
Manufacturers have left out raw recording probably because commodity cards (CF and SD) have been too slow. In five or 10 years, raw may be widespread...
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The BMD URSA (both 4K and 4.6K), as mentioned above, are the low price leaders in internal Raw. FS5 does Raw externally for about $8,000, combined with the cost of the external recorder. FS5, rather than URSA, should probably be the measuring stick in terms of the major manufacturer with a competitive feature set. If one expects a 30% price/quality break annually, then he might see a $4,000 4K camera that can have Raw via an SDI out by the end of this year.

For most GH5 shooters, a 10-bit 4:2:2 internal to a V60/90 rated SD card will be sufficient. My bet on whether the internal 10-bit happens or not is hedged at 50/50.
 
Since RAW is a major part of the still world, I do not see it as a stretch to offer a RAW video stream if the speeds allow it. Everybody wants to jump to 4k but that can actually hold these cameras back right now. What if 1080p was offered in RAW? wouldn't that still be awesome? The 4k data load is so immense compared to 1080p.

The other issue with RAW is the lack of format and NLE infrastructure. Blackmagic had Resolve to read its DNG files. If Panasonic wanted to create RAW video, what format would that video be in? In the still world, each camera maker has its own RAW format and the software like Lightroom has to be able to read all of them. That just is not the case right now in the video world. It can and will change but it will be bit by bit over time.

Regarding 10-bit: We all want it but I will kind of be surprised if it shows up. The makers just seem stingy with the bits as well as 4k being such a large amount of data to process. If the DVX200 does not have internal 10-bit at twice the price, how can you expect the GH5 to have it? I can see the line of quality/features within Panasonic between the AJ cameras and everything below. That line is moving but has always been there. But, if Panasonic never releases an AJ-PX430 then it starts to get muddy and look like they do not want to play ball. Because who are we kidding here? These small cameras create amazing images and with a little more data retention can be professional tools.
 
Bassman2003 said:
... If the DVX200 does not have internal 10-bit at twice the price, how can you expect the GH5 to have it? ...
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By the time GH5 shows on on store shelves, DVX 200 will be two years old. Also, these spec creeps are not smooth. Sometimes, it seems like all you're getting is a little more here and a little moire there; at other times; you get huge jumps like with GH4 over GH3. In the GH5 case, it'd be nice to get a stop greater ISO (due to the BSI), a stop or two higher DR (maybe due to a dual readout), higher quality HFR; higher bit rate recording, better audio, etc. All of those may be incremental steps but, overall, they'd amount to a superior package.

Of course, it'd also be cool if they put out an upscaled GH5 too, aka "GH7", with all the above tech + the internal Raw to the UFS cards + some other stuff.

Especially, if "some other stuff" just knocks your socks off.
 
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