EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

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Erik Naso said:
Today I was on The Go Creative podcast and this is exactly what I said about the EVA 1.
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Yeah, Apple has historically had this nailed. Announce a product. Take Pre-orders a week later. Launch in stores a week later. Dominate news for 2-3 weeks and capitilize on people's excitement. Granted, they have the market share and clout to be able to do so effectively, but it certainly seems like the ideal model.

Then again, even Apple has recently begun to stray from this trend - and I don't like it. HomePod announced 6 months early, still not out until December. AirPods announced very early, still limited shipments. Their new AirPower Mat coming in 2018. And of course the iPhone X, still a month out and likely to be insanely hard to get before Q1 2018.

Not a fan of this either. Give me enough time to get aware, be excited, and place an order... this trend is becoming quite prevalent and I really don't think it benefits either party.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Noel's work was done in communication with Panasonic Australia.
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It is coming. My schedule is a little out of control and I have just returned from a few weeks in Japan. There are still some shots I want to get. It's coming in a bout a fortnight. I think the timing is right.
 
Have to say I'm tired of reading all of this moaning about organic images, companies pre-announcing/not announcing cameras, lousy footage, sharp, flat.... it just goes on and on. I remember when I saw the first footage from the Fs7, I wasn't impressed but kept my mouth shut. It wasn't for me. However, that footage didn't stop the camera from going on to be a big success. Even the Venice, which most probably had a budget larger than the three EVA tests combined, looks nice but....

The point I am trying to make, if you can't see what a camera can do from what's already out in terms of footage, then I'm not sure what it is you are looking for. No camera is "cinematic" in of itself, even the Alexa line. The cinema experience comes from so many things, that the camera is actually quite low on the list. And IF it was the most important, we'd all be Coppola by now.
 
Absolutely right. I am an FS7 owner and the first time I shot with it I looked at the footage and wanted to throw it out of the window. It takes time to get to know a camera and work towards its strengths and avoid it weaknesses. Today I can get extremely good footage out of that same camera. The rest is just good cinematography or photography avoiding bad lighting no Alexa will make people outdoors at noon look good you will still need to diffuse and bounce. And lets face it cameras have never been better. Martin Scorsese would have killed to have his hands on a a7s when he did mean streets, if you could take a batch of FS7's and travel back in time you could probably unload them for 250k a piece in 1993. in 1993 I shot a digibeta for the first time, it was like having a flying car. to quote Louis C.K.

"things are just amazing and nobody is happy."

stoneinapond said:
Have to say I'm tired of reading all of this moaning about organic images, companies pre-announcing/not announcing cameras, lousy footage, sharp, flat.... it just goes on and on. I remember when I saw the first footage from the Fs7, I wasn't impressed but kept my mouth shut. It wasn't for me. However, that footage didn't stop the camera from going on to be a big success. Even the Venice, which most probably had a budget larger than the three EVA tests combined, looks nice but....

The point I am trying to make, if you can't see what a camera can do from what's already out in terms of footage, then I'm not sure what it is you are looking for. No camera is "cinematic" in of itself, even the Alexa line. The cinema experience comes from so many things, that the camera is actually quite low on the list. And IF it was the most important, we'd all be Coppola by now.
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filmguy123 said:
Only thing with diffusers is they have affect on other areas of the image as well, which may not be desirable. Radio 88 does have a significantly "better" (subjectively to me) look than the others, but it also exhibits excess highlight blooming and perhaps a little too much softness. There are also post options to introduce some subtle softening as an option too.

However, no solution outside of the raw sensor capture will be perfect - they all introduce some level of compromise. There are certain looks that may be able to be closely imitated, but not truly replicated. The initial footage I have seen so far has a very different feel to it than the LT footage I have seen, and I am not sure how close that can be approximated with extra-camera solutions - but again, it is too early to really tell.
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There are three basic properties of diffusion filters: contrast, resolution and flare (aka halation). Depending on the filter type these three aspects can be affected to different degrees. That's why there are so many types of diffusion available.
 
filmguy123 said:
Yeah, Apple has historically had this nailed. Announce a product. Take Pre-orders a week later. Launch in stores a week later. Dominate news for 2-3 weeks and capitilize on people's excitement. Granted, they have the market share and clout to be able to do so effectively, but it certainly seems like the ideal model.

Then again, even Apple has recently begun to stray from this trend - and I don't like it. HomePod announced 6 months early, still not out until December. AirPods announced very early, still limited shipments. Their new AirPower Mat coming in 2018. And of course the iPhone X, still a month out and likely to be insanely hard to get before Q1 2018.

Not a fan of this either. Give me enough time to get aware, be excited, and place an order... this trend is becoming quite prevalent and I really don't think it benefits either party.
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I guess this is a good time to remind everyone how Apple announced and then released the original iPhone. The initial announcement came on January 9, 2007. Here's a pertinent quote from the press release:

"iPhone will be available in the US in June 2007, Europe in late 2007, and Asia in 2008."

It was about five months between the announcement of the iPhone and the initial release. Anyone who knows a bit about Steve jobs and the history of the release of the iPhone knows that the sample version shown at the unveiling was barely functional and severely buggy.

Anyone remember the Francis Ford Coppola movie "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"? There's a great scene where the car is first unveiled to the public. Nothing works right and the thing actually catches fire seconds before the big reveal. Behind the curtain everyone scrambles to clean things up and hide any problems, and when the curtains rise it looks like everything is perfect. Welcome to the world of product launches throughout modern history. The point is that when the car was released it was great, because you have to get past all that stuff along the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL9aiYpAyI0
 
Mitch Gross said:
I guess this is a good time to remind everyone how Apple announced and then released the original iPhone. The initial announcement came on January 9, 2007. Here's a pertinent quote from the press release:

"iPhone will be available in the US in June 2007, Europe in late 2007, and Asia in 2008."

It was about five months between the announcement of the iPhone and the initial release. Anyone who knows a bit about Steve jobs and the history of the release of the iPhone knows that the sample version shown at the unveiling was barely functional and severely buggy.

Anyone remember the Francis Ford Coppola movie "Tucker: The Man and His Dream"? There's a great scene where the car is first unveiled to the public. Nothing works right and the thing actually catches fire seconds before the big reveal. Behind the curtain everyone scrambles to clean things up and hide any problems, and when the curtains rise it looks like everything is perfect. Welcome to the world of product launches throughout modern history. The point is that when the car was released it was great, because you have to get past all that stuff along the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL9aiYpAyI0
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What a perfect analogy, and by the way, I really like that movie. Thanks!
 
Just my two cents. I got my hands on the EVA-1 yesterday at the Fixation event in London. A few thoughts, it feels good in the hands. The side-grip was a bit flakey (kept slipping/rotating around as I lifted it) but I was assured it was only a pre-prod model, and the consumer version would be solid.

Buttons are nicely laid out. Not sure about the racing red stripe, but makes it distinctive.

But felt really weird not having an EVF to hold up to your eye. The monitor was adequate however.

However, that all being said, we saw some footage on the thumbnail menu that they had shot a few days before, and all those present were 'wowed'. We saw footage played back on a really good HD monitor, footage shot in 4K down sampled to 1080, and the night footage looked like it was shot on an A7S. It was shot at 2500 base iso setting, and it was crystal clear blacks, no hint of noise. I haven't seen the footage everyone was going about a few weeks ago about noises dark images, but this footage looked stunning!

Enough to make me want one! Even the daylight footage, direct from camera, had great warmth and skin tones.

My overall impression, I was super impressed by the footage. Both day and night shots.
I do use the EVF on my cameras, so not having one, would take some getting used to.

But I think this camera is going to do very well, in the current market.
 
filmguy123 said:
we're 30 days from launch. Only so much can be done.
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That assumes that Panasonic started working on any firmware updates today instead of back in August, but since the camera has been out of the field for at least a month and half we don't know when they started their work. In addition the short films Panasonic commissioned they also had people like Noel testing the EVA1. It's seems quite possible that Panasonic noticed issues back in August and their engineers have been working 24/7 on whatever fixes are needed.

The official EFA1 films were shot under pretty challenging circumstances so it's no surprise to me that Panasonic learned new things about the EVA1's limitations. While all the footage wasn't perfect I think the camera did wonderfully overall and I am quite optimistic about the EVA1's potential. One of the things that excites me the most is that unlike the C200 we still haven't seen the EVA1's RAW capabilities in action. I am going to wait until the shipping model is out but I think we're going to be picking one up.
 
Leo Burton said:
Just my two cents. I got my hands on the EVA-1 yesterday at the Fixation event in London.

we saw some footage on the thumbnail menu that they had shot a few days before, and all those present were 'wowed'. We saw footage played back on a really good HD monitor, footage shot in 4K down sampled to 1080, and the night footage looked like it was shot on an A7S. It was shot at 2500 base iso setting, and it was crystal clear blacks, no hint of noise. I haven't seen the footage everyone was going about a few weeks ago about noises dark images, but this footage looked stunning!

My overall impression, I was super impressed by the footage. Both day and night shots.
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Fantastic! Thank you for sharing. Jealous of your hands on, and looking forward to seeing the next batch.

stoneinapond said:
Have to say I'm tired of reading all of this moaning about organic images, companies pre-announcing/not announcing cameras, lousy footage, sharp, flat....
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Yeah I hate when I come to a camera forum, go to the camera hardware section, drill down to a sub-forum about a specific camera manufacturer line, and then click on a post about a new camera and it's just full of people talking about the camera image, features, and other tech specs. Feathers, ruffled.

Gary T said:
That assumes that Panasonic started working on any firmware updates today instead of back in August
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Right, 60 days, same net effect... 60 days VS years.

Mitch Gross said:
I guess this is a good time to remind everyone how Apple announced and then released the original iPhone. T
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Sure - but then they never did that again....

It was done because of FCC filings and regulations that were going to have to be processed and finalized and the leaks would have been impossible to contain. The only other time Apple (until recently) pre-announced a product in advance that far was the iPad in 2010, but that was because software was central to making it run, and they wanted to give the app developers 3-months lead time in order to have apps ready for the April launch.

BTW not criticizing the launch from Panasonic business angle, just the business practice in general and the drama it creates. In defense of Panasonic, really it makes perfect sense. Here you are at NAB, months away from a major camera splash. New cameras announced and coming soon. Post-NAB purchase decisions being made - possibly with your competitors. Makes 100% sense to market to possible C200 customers, FS7 MkII customers, etc. and make the product known. That's 6 months of lost sales, potentially, for people who may have been MUCH happier with the EVA-1.


Noel Evans said:
It is coming. My schedule is a little out of control and I have just returned from a few weeks in Japan. There are still some shots I want to get. It's coming in a bout a fortnight. I think the timing is right.
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Awesome!
 
filmguy123 said:
....Yeah I hate when I come to a camera forum, go to the camera hardware section, drill down to a sub-forum about a specific camera manufacturer line, and then click on a post about a new camera and it's just full of people talking about the camera image, features, and other tech specs. Feathers, ruffled.
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If only that was what all the posters did. Guess the point flew over the cuckoo's nest..... :beer:
 
filmguy123 said:
Right, 60 days, same net effect... 60 days VS years.
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filmguy123 said:
I'm not saying the camera won't improve. 2-3 months of firmware revisions, tweaking and time is huge.
....
we're 30 days from launch. Only so much can be done.
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To more clear, you acknowledged that Panasonic could make "huge" changes in 60 days but then without explanation chose the date of your post as the day their engineers started working on the updates. The implication was that since they only had 30 days we shouldn't expect as much from the camera a launch since "only so much can be done" in 30 days.

We don't know when Panasonic's engineers started tweaking the firmware.

filmguy123 said:
Sure - but then they never did that again....
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Maybe not with the iPhone 8 but Apple did it recently with the HomePod and the iMac Pro. Both won't ship until December, 6 months after they were announced. Even the iPhone X won't be available until November, around 2 months after it was announced. The iPhone 8 and it's predecessors have been a special case for a number of years with a predicable September announcement event and availability a couple of weeks later. I think this tight launch window is as much to keep Apple's competitors guessing until the last minute as much as anything else.

I agree that this makes perfect sense from Panasonic's perspective given the nature of the mid range camera market. Companies have used CES and other major trade shows to soft launch products for years so the EVA1 launches at NAB and Cinegear are really nothing new. Based on early reviews Apple will likely sell millions of HomePods but the market for $7,500+ video cameras is obviously much smaller. To make matters worse many of the potential customers already own a comparable camera system. Panasonic, Sony, and Canon are all fighting for the same customers, many who like me are waiting until after they have launched to make a purchase decision.
 
Gary T said:
you acknowledged that Panasonic could make "huge" changes in 60 days but then without explanation chose the date of your post as the day their engineers started working on the updates.

Maybe not with the iPhone 8 but Apple did it recently with the HomePod and the iMac Pro. Both won't ship until December, 6 months after they were announced. Even the iPhone X won't be available until November, around 2 months after it was announced.
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Didn't realize I may have inadvertently entered an argument over things we agree on ;)

filmguy123 said:
2-3 months of firmware revisions, tweaking and time is huge. So is receiving feedback from the community about problem spots. Thankful for that....
I am also aware that the camera has been in development for YEARS - we're 30 days from launch. Only so much can be done.
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filmguy123 said:
Then again, even Apple has recently begun to stray from this trend - and I don't like it. HomePod announced 6 months early, still not out until December. AirPods announced very early, still limited shipments. Their new AirPower Mat coming in 2018. And of course the iPhone X, still a month out and likely to be insanely hard to get before Q1 2018.
Not a fan of this either
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I am happy to agree and I don't mind being corrected.

I thought you were implying that it was time to hit panic button since Panasonic had just starting working on a firmware update 30 days before the EVA1 was released. I apologize if I misunderstood your intent.
 
246 pages and the camera hasn't even been released yet. I would say the strategy of announce and make them wait is working.

I would say it's time for Puppet Mitch to make a special appearance as the head of a small banana republic in a new web series about the tyranny of offshore manufacturing, whisky bootlegging and illegal gun running.
 
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yoclay said:
246 pages and the camera hasn't even been released yet. I would say the strategy of announce and make them wait is working.

I would say it's time for Puppet Mitch to make a special appearance as the head of a small banana republic in a new web series about the tyranny of offshore manufacturing, whisky bootlegging and illegal gun running.
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How did you know about Puppet Mitch's secret plans for world domination? He's currently putting the finishing touches on his secret lair inside a hollowed out volcano.
 
On the 30-60 days question, time for another analogy.

This one is kinda like Tucker, but let's say it's any car maker. Time for a new sports car, and it's going to have a new engine design with new transmission, new valve timing, new vacuum pump, new turbo, etc. Now the car maker has made plenty of cars over the decades and much of this technology is based in some part on previous models that they've perfected over the years. But still these are all new components along with some standard ones that are going to be shoved together. It takes a few years to get all of these components researched, designed and first units manufactured. Guess what happens when they stick the first handmade parts together to test it out? The thing runs horribly. The timing is wrong, the pressure is off, etc. Then they start tweaking things a bit here and a bit there, adding a torque strut here and changing oil pressure there. Maybe an item or two needs a change -- hey we need a slightly bigger water pump, whoa, the brakes need to be a little stronger in the rear -- and so on. And within a very short time that car is purring like a kitten.

Years of work gets it all very close, but when the parts are put together there are always a few tweaks. It's the expertise put into those two years that makes the tweak period fairly small and predictable. That's why Panasonic's engineers can forecast with pretty darn good accuracy when the camera will be ready to ship. They know there will be some problems at first, they know the problems won't be too severe and they know the process of addressing those problems once they are discovered.

So a 2-3 months to get the camera tweaked out and shipping after years of development? Yeah, that's about right if you know what you're doing. This is the same group of people that built the VariCams. It's not their first rodeo.
 
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