EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

[Mitch Gross]

It needs LOG to even do 12. Any regular picture profiles/styles are usually less than 10.

Although Panasonic has those Cinelike Ds and Vs...maybe could get a bit more out of that depending on how it's implemented.

If I recall, a standard Rec709 is only about 7 stops. Of course no one has shot standard Rec709 for years, as we all put a ramp into the high end and stretch tails. This goes back to the original VariCam 27F with its Film Rec mode, as well s the Sony F900 and its Hypergamma. But those are still trapped within a Rec709 capsule so can only go so far. You need RAW or Log modes to get the full range of any sensor.

 

[NorBro]

I think you can definitely squeeze out a bit more than 7 out of the Rec709ish cine profiles cameras offer these days.

Even just dialing the settings down to 0 (or negative) on some cameras in neutral shows a slight visually difference on the LCD. Nothing major, but something.

I don't know much about the Cinelike D/V, but Sony's Cine Gammas, for example, definitely help.

 

[Mitch Gross]

I think you can definitely squeeze out a bit more than 7 out of the Rec709ish cine profiles cameras offer these days.

Even just dialing the settings down to 0 (or negative) on some cameras in neutral shows a slight visually difference on the LCD. Nothing major, but something.

I don't know much about the Cinelike D/V, but Sony's Cine Gammas, for example, definitely help.

Sorry, that's what I was trying to say in tmy previous post. When I said "no one has shot Rec709 for years" I meant that the camera manufacturers have stretched and pulled the gamma curves. The variations for this are what you referenced. We're saying the same thing.

 

[tillhavis]

If the new Panasonic Cine camera has an EF mount with S35 sensor what
relatively affordable run and gun power zoom lens would work well with it ?
Would the Sony E PZ 18-110mm f/4 G OSS power zoom be usable ? would the Auto Focus and IS work with it ?
Anybody !
Also what are the option available at the moment if you are looking for a good Run and Gun Servo lens with AF and IS on
Panasonic cameras ?

Thanks.

 

[Jason R. Johnston]

If the new Panasonic Cine camera has an EF mount with S35 sensor what relatively affordable run and gun power zoom lens would work well with it ?

Maybe the Canon CN-E 18-80mm T4.4? Or use a B4 2/3" to Canon EF adapter in S35 mode and that sorta opens up a whole world of new and used lenses that would work, provided that the Panasonic New Camera has the appropriate lens control interface. I'm sure any HD 2/3" B4 ENG lens with built-in 2x extender would work at that point. There's also the Canon CN7x17 KAS S 17-120mm T2.95...

Would the Sony E PZ 18-110mm f/4 G OSS power zoom be usable ? would the Auto Focus and IS work with it ?

I don't believe you can adapt E-mount lenses to EF...not without a lot of optics. I don't think anyone makes something like that.

what are the option available at the moment if you are looking for a good Run and Gun Servo lens with AF and IS on Panasonic cameras ?

Not really sure there are any M43-mount lenses that fit that description.

 

[fboonzaier]

For me perhaps the biggest clue when I speculate about this camera, lies in what I deem the most critical in the description....it's not the size of the lens in the front or the shape of the body, but that this is touted before any released news as a Cine Camera...It's probably highly doubtful that it will be either an Eng style camera with power zooms or AF IMO...oh well....we'll know soon enough, but I will say that I've even read people calling for in camera RAW recording....basically a lot of the specs people are hoping for, would amount to a camera costing more than the LT...probably that's not where Panasonic is going with this cam.

 

[puredrifting]

For me perhaps the biggest clue when I speculate about this camera, lies in what I deem the most critical in the description....it's not the size of the lens in the front or the shape of the body, but that this is touted before any released news as a Cine Camera...It's probably highly doubtful that it will be either an Eng style camera with power zooms or AF IMO...oh well....we'll know soon enough, but I will say that I've even read people calling for in camera RAW recording....basically a lot of the specs people are hoping for, would amount to a camera costing more than the LT...probably that's not where Panasonic is going with this cam.

This is why cameras are not typically crowdsource designed and funded. When you look at all of the vaporware cameras that have been on Kickstarter, this is always the issue, people are unrealistic about what it would cost to create a camera that is all things to all users. I am pretty sure that it will be a great camera, Panasonic is one of the best and they know what users want and need. The only spoiler that sort of makes this new mystery camera impressive are the GH5 specs, which are amazing for the price range. So if Panasonic is positioning this camera in between the GH5 and Varicam LT, it is not impossible to map out what is should have. It has already been specualted that it is an S35 imager and most probably will have an EF mount. It will probably speak with EF lenses through electronics, hopefully activating IS and obviously will have to control aperture. As far as AF or DPAF, that is sort of wild card, the Varicam LT doesn't and the GH5 does have AF. Only the Mitch knows. So I would mark that as a maybe. The other big speculation is media, if it only takes SDXC cards, that probably determines which codecs at which bit rates it supports. If it had CFast or P2 Express cards, etc. that would allow for higher end media with a higher end codec and bit rate, although this Summer's firmware update to the GH5 is supposedly going to include a 400MB/S codec???? So that's another one that could go a lot of different ways.

From the marketing position, it shouldn't have dual ISO or at least at 800 and 5000 and it shouldn't support too high frame rates, that feels as if it would intrude too much into the LT area and the Mitch has already said that this new camera doesn't replace or subsume the Varicam LT. I am really hoping it has Varicam look and color science. It will support V-Log and hopefully will have some good quality audio goodies. I am beginning to agree with those who think this will be a DVX-200 with a removable lens, which I hope it is not because the DVX-200 color science is nothing to write home about IMHO. I have yet to see footage from the DVX-200 that blows me away. The more we discuss it, that seems to be the market segment they are going for unless it turns out to be more in the $9k to $10k range, but I am betting on the $6k to $8k range as more likely.

 

[tillhavis]

Thanks JR ! IMO a good quality and reasonably priced power Zoom with AF and IS is really needed to get the most out of this camera, for Run and Gun work at least.

The Canon 18-80mm T4.4 is pretty reasonably priced, I just looked on B@H and it says it's an EF mount
I wonder if the AF and IS will work with this new camera, (if it is an EF mount camera)

Time Panasonic started making some reasonably priced powered zooms !

 

[ElizabethH]

Puredrifting, this was very helpful! Thanks. Also been thinking about this

 

[tillhavis]

If the new camera has Dual ISO and IS without Raw output and some frame rate options, it could still be considered to be in a different market to the LT,
and not impact on it's sales.

By keeping it a 4K 10bt 4:2:2 Camera (with internal recording) it would be positioning itself against the FS5 and to an extent the BM Ursa Mini.

IMO omitting dual ISO would be a big mistake as this could be the feature that sets it apart from these other cameras.

It's only a matter of time before all new cameras in this price point have internal 4K 10bit 4:2:2, and with Canon due to release a 4K update to
the C100 II with dual pixel autofocus they will be hard to beat in the run and gun / solo operator market.

Dual Pixel technology on the Canons is an attractive feature, if they improve the codec then it could be a real contender in this market.
Maybe this new Panasonic camera will have great AutoFocus too but unless it does they need another few tricks up their sleeve.
My 2 Cents.

 

[Mitch Gross]

18 days to CineGear...

 

[puredrifting]

Thanks JR ! IMO a good quality and reasonably priced power Zoom with AF and IS is really needed to get the most out of this camera, for Run and Gun work at least.

Just remember, cine cameras are not really made for run & gun shooting, even though that's how many of us use them. They are typically made more for narrative filmmaking with a camera op and one or two ACs. Large sensors are not ideal for run & gun, holding focus with shallow DOF and moving subjects is challenging, the physical layout of most cinema cameras require that the camera to be custom rigged with handle relocators, arms, 15mm rods, lens supports, etc. all are basically crap hanging off of your camera that screw up the weight distribution, require more power and typically have easy to snag cables all over the place, kind of how we used to rig out film cameras. The 18-80 and 70-200 Canon CNe servo zooms would be ideal run and gun lenses, but I will be surprised if this new camera has AF or effective AF with Canon lenses, although I hope it does. The Varicam LT manual focusing aids are pretty good, the growing squares are cool so hopefully that will make it to this camera.

But the best run & gun cameras are 2/3" Betacam-form factor cameras that are still largely used to shoot reality TV today. Cine cameras are not even in the same league for that kind of shooting.

 

[NorBro]

But the best run & gun cameras are 2/3" Betacam-form factor cameras that are still largely used to shoot reality TV today. Cine cameras are not even in the same league for that kind of shooting.

What about some of the ARRIs?

 

[Rdouthit]

But the best run & gun cameras are 2/3" Betacam-form factor cameras that are still largely used to shoot reality TV today. Cine cameras are not even in the same league for that kind of shooting.

I would be really surprised if this is still the case.

 

[Alex H.]

I would be really surprised if this is still the case.

It is still the case. Reality along with news magazine and lifestyle programming still rely heavily on 2/3", 3CCD broadcast camcorders. I've worked on plenty of shows in the last two years that were, by network request, shot on HDCAM and XDCAM. Mostly the latter.

 

[puredrifting]

I would be really surprised if this is still the case.

It is still the case. Have you shot any reality programming? I have quite a few hours with these on my shoulders, it's what made me decide that I don't want to work in reality, you're basically a human tripod for 14 hour days, it's awful. But this form factor and size/weight is simply what works. That's who is buying all of these and they buy a lot of them.

 

[rob norton]

I would be really surprised if this is still the case.

Yes and remember there are thousands of reality television shows, a few of them not bad.

 

[alaskacameradude]

It is still the case. Reality along with news magazine and lifestyle programming still rely heavily on 2/3", 3CCD broadcast camcorders. I've worked on plenty of shows in the last two years that were, by network request, shot on HDCAM and XDCAM. Mostly the latter.

Well......I'm sure some are but the way you phrase that 'it is still the case'
(that reality tv is 2/3 inch) is a bit misleading in my opinion. I too have shot
a lot of reality TV in the last couple years and 95% of it has been with Super 35
cameras. I'm not going to claim all reality TV is shot on Super 35 now, all I can
say, is in my experience, in my little corner of the world (which, believe it or not
has a heavy diet of reality tv shows being shot in) reality TV is increasingly
moving towards Super 35 (very often with the Cabrio 19-90.)

 

[alaskacameradude]

It is still the case. Have you shot any reality programming? I have quite a few hours with these on my shoulders, it's what made me decide that I don't want to work in reality, you're basically a human tripod for 14 hour days, it's awful. But this form factor and size/weight is simply what works. That's who is buying all of these and they buy a lot of them.

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Again, yes I have shot plenty of reality tv. Long hours for sure. And mostly
all on Super 35 with the Cabrio 19-90. I cannot speak to broad trends
necessarily, only what I see in my area.

 

[Milan O.]

Just posted on the VariCam Facebook page. Hopefully this means that the new camera is a Varicam and has the same sensor. I'd love to get rid of my other cameras and have this as a B-camera for my LT.