EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates
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Darren Levine
Veteran
I like this NDA compliance game
Mitch,
Will this camera have... a pixel pitch greater than, or less than 3.3microns?
Mitch,
Will this camera have... a pixel pitch greater than, or less than 3.3microns?
FS7 sized? and priced?
I see that. Why?
It seems like it might be more FS5 sized and priced, but it's anybody's guess until June 1st comes around.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Too many pre-orders...they can't keep up with the demand even after 2-3 price raises.
Shipping has been pushed back a number of times and severely delayed. (The sensor quality-control is supposedly insane...could be one reason.)
Jarred hinted at it being a mistake. I'm guessing they would rather sell less more expensive cameras than hundreds of inexpensive cameras. Even though the original $6K price is not cheap it's less than $15K-$30K.
filmguy123
Veteran
I don't think it's a matter of if a M43 sensor size camera could be good. I think it's a matter of if Panny would do that from a business perspective. I can't see it - but if they did, sure, I'd be game. But then again, I'm invested in M43 and the GH5, and much of their target audience likely isn't...
If they were committed to being a true bridge between Varicam and GH5, an S35 sensor with swappable EF/MFT mount would be the most probable course (With an S35 to S16/M43 mode). Not saying it's likely, just saying it would be the natural course if that was a primary goal to bridge those two lower end systems in a sort of stepping ladder fashion. Varicam LT with a swappable EF/PL mount to carry the bridge from the mid/high end, and Varicam mini with swappable EF/MFT mount to bridge the low end. Not saying that this scenario itself is likely VS just a straight up EF mount... but it sure would be a cool possibility!
I wouldn't rule a native video-engineered M43 sensor out and I'd personally be pretty happy personally to add it to my M43 family, I'm just going to be really surprised if they put all of their midrange eggs in that basket after the AF100, in light of already having a GH5/DVX200, and in light of the current market conditions. Not because anything would be wrong with it, but from a marketing POV it's a huge risk and blackmark on the spec sheet (whether real or merely perceived) to be going up against a swath of midrange S35/FF cameras with a sensor disadvantage.
Sure, it would distinguish them as the only feasible pro bodied M43 cinema camera, but is that what they're going for?
Regarding the argument that the development cost would be lower to make it a pro bodied M43, I have to disagree. They have the tech on both ends (Varicam S35, GH5 m43) - it's just a question of which they adopt. Given the slow sales of higher end Varicam models and the price insensitivity of many higher end clients that demand some of those top tier features that don't matter as much to the lower end, to me it makes much more business sense to hit the market hard and fiercely by packaging their excellent Varicam tech into a midrange, highly competitive S35 camera. They've already shown a willingness to be incredibly competitive with their GH5 specs.
Me? I'll be equally excited about a pro-bodied M43 or an S35 sensor, depending on the specs and innovation that they provide of course. Always been with Panasonic and frankly its just good to see them back on the midrange field again. They've been sorely missed.
If they were committed to being a true bridge between Varicam and GH5, an S35 sensor with swappable EF/MFT mount would be the most probable course (With an S35 to S16/M43 mode). Not saying it's likely, just saying it would be the natural course if that was a primary goal to bridge those two lower end systems in a sort of stepping ladder fashion. Varicam LT with a swappable EF/PL mount to carry the bridge from the mid/high end, and Varicam mini with swappable EF/MFT mount to bridge the low end. Not saying that this scenario itself is likely VS just a straight up EF mount... but it sure would be a cool possibility!
I wouldn't rule a native video-engineered M43 sensor out and I'd personally be pretty happy personally to add it to my M43 family, I'm just going to be really surprised if they put all of their midrange eggs in that basket after the AF100, in light of already having a GH5/DVX200, and in light of the current market conditions. Not because anything would be wrong with it, but from a marketing POV it's a huge risk and blackmark on the spec sheet (whether real or merely perceived) to be going up against a swath of midrange S35/FF cameras with a sensor disadvantage.
Sure, it would distinguish them as the only feasible pro bodied M43 cinema camera, but is that what they're going for?
Regarding the argument that the development cost would be lower to make it a pro bodied M43, I have to disagree. They have the tech on both ends (Varicam S35, GH5 m43) - it's just a question of which they adopt. Given the slow sales of higher end Varicam models and the price insensitivity of many higher end clients that demand some of those top tier features that don't matter as much to the lower end, to me it makes much more business sense to hit the market hard and fiercely by packaging their excellent Varicam tech into a midrange, highly competitive S35 camera. They've already shown a willingness to be incredibly competitive with their GH5 specs.
Me? I'll be equally excited about a pro-bodied M43 or an S35 sensor, depending on the specs and innovation that they provide of course. Always been with Panasonic and frankly its just good to see them back on the midrange field again. They've been sorely missed.
Mike Harvey
Veteran
I seem to remember JVC was selling a camera with an M4/3 mount over an S35 sensor, and given how much good, relatively inexpensive M4/3 glass is out there (much of it from Panasonic), an M4/3 mount option (even if it's a sensor crop mode) seems like a winner. But, yeah, I just can't see an M4/3 sensored camera making much business sense. A stripped down S35 sensor out of the Varicam with an option to use M4/3 glass looks way more competitive compared to the FS- and C- series cameras... especially if it has the option to shoot AVC-Ultra to mini-P2.
It's not like Panny hasn't dropped the ball before. The original dvx that gave this site its name, was an unexpectadly revolutionary camera. The followup AF100 was an excellent effort that unfortunately got a bit bypassed by tough market conditions, but it was a breakthrough in its own way. And then, Panny dropped the ball, basically a no-show in this space for years. What that no-show allowed is for other companies to dictate what the market was. It used to be that Panny would define markets (as they did with the AF100). Now Panny is playing in someone elses backyard.
Panny needs to get back in the game. Unfortunately the talk here seems to indicate a big space between what they need to do to regain market initiative, and what they seem to have planned which is more of the old "day late and dollar short" strategy they've been pursuing the past few years. I'm worried about talk of FS5 competitor. They need to do much much better than the FS5. As a matter of fact, they need to do much better than the FS7. Clearly the FS7 has been selling well, and owns a space in the market. What this new Panny needs to do is to take that space away, completely - and the best way to do it is to deliver clearly superior performance for a much better price. They need to beat the FS7 head and shoulders. And come in at an FS5-ish price. Ideally, not more than $6K, and $4,999 would be better. That's what they need to do. I suspect, instead - though I hope I'm wrong - the price will be $8K, which is much too much. Hope I'm wrong.
Panny needs to get back in the game. Unfortunately the talk here seems to indicate a big space between what they need to do to regain market initiative, and what they seem to have planned which is more of the old "day late and dollar short" strategy they've been pursuing the past few years. I'm worried about talk of FS5 competitor. They need to do much much better than the FS5. As a matter of fact, they need to do much better than the FS7. Clearly the FS7 has been selling well, and owns a space in the market. What this new Panny needs to do is to take that space away, completely - and the best way to do it is to deliver clearly superior performance for a much better price. They need to beat the FS7 head and shoulders. And come in at an FS5-ish price. Ideally, not more than $6K, and $4,999 would be better. That's what they need to do. I suspect, instead - though I hope I'm wrong - the price will be $8K, which is much too much. Hope I'm wrong.
Right out of the gate the GH5 is already doing more than the FS5 does by bringing 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 to a $2K camera.
I expect this new camera will do the same thing to cameras at a higher price point.
filmguy123
Veteran
I think they will price to compete with FS5, but build features to compete with entire Sony FS7/FS5 midrange (lets face it: FS7 in a lighter FS5 body would be many people's dream camera). I think they will attempt to do just that.
I hope they will do a swappable mount with clever mode switch to bridge their M43 glass along for the ride and really make the GH5+Varicam Mini (or whatever they call it) a crazy 1-2 punch combo (this would actually benefit GH5 sales if they did this, with some much interchange between the platforms).
Plus, there is one other benefit to creating their camera with a swappable EF/M43 mount: If it's an S35 EF mount, you cannot use speedboosters with it (there is no EF to EF speedbooster). Compared to the FS7/FS5 e-mount which allows speedbooster glass to be mounted on it, that's an ouch, as it gives those sony cameras a potential 1-stop advantage plus more focal length flexibility...
But with a native EF mount + swappable M43 mount, you'd really have a super flexible, killer setup: Native EF mount if that's your thing, or swap to a MFT mount in S35 mode + EF Speedbooster to really maximize that S35 sensor. Or, MFT mode in M43 mode for native M43 glass. And, the benefit of MFT mount to add a Nikon adaptor or vintage adaptor or pretty much anything to get all the benefits of that super flexible mount, but on the larger S35 sensor.
It would be the ultimate in low/mid range flexibiltiy in terms of lenses, b-camera matching, speedbooster options, etc.
Ok. Thinking about it more, that sounds really killer... now my hopes are up.
I hope they will do a swappable mount with clever mode switch to bridge their M43 glass along for the ride and really make the GH5+Varicam Mini (or whatever they call it) a crazy 1-2 punch combo (this would actually benefit GH5 sales if they did this, with some much interchange between the platforms).
Plus, there is one other benefit to creating their camera with a swappable EF/M43 mount: If it's an S35 EF mount, you cannot use speedboosters with it (there is no EF to EF speedbooster). Compared to the FS7/FS5 e-mount which allows speedbooster glass to be mounted on it, that's an ouch, as it gives those sony cameras a potential 1-stop advantage plus more focal length flexibility...
But with a native EF mount + swappable M43 mount, you'd really have a super flexible, killer setup: Native EF mount if that's your thing, or swap to a MFT mount in S35 mode + EF Speedbooster to really maximize that S35 sensor. Or, MFT mode in M43 mode for native M43 glass. And, the benefit of MFT mount to add a Nikon adaptor or vintage adaptor or pretty much anything to get all the benefits of that super flexible mount, but on the larger S35 sensor.
It would be the ultimate in low/mid range flexibiltiy in terms of lenses, b-camera matching, speedbooster options, etc.
Ok. Thinking about it more, that sounds really killer... now my hopes are up.
But Panasonic has a full line of MFT glass and MFT sensors (currently being made by Sony) and MFT is its own turf. If they make an s35 sensor camera, they'd have to compete with every other camera maker in that class. If they stick to MFT, they won't. And swappable mouints give the shooter both options.*
So, they can make an up-market version of the existing GH5 or a down-market version of the Varicam LT. And, we're told by those in the know that it won't be a Varicam.
*IMO, they should have the fully electronic adapter that can work with the EF- and E-mount glass --- if it's an MFT mount camera.
LS300 is still out there. The problem may lie in its being a sub-4K camera in the MFT mode. With the Varicam/LT sensor, any crop would also be sub-4K.
On the other hand, an up-market GH5 can be 6K off its full sensor readout.
HDR can also be achieved via multiple exposure and the subsequent frame blending. There's no reason for this AF200 Mini to suffer in performance visavis other $6,000-$8,000 cameras.
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From the photo it doesn't look like MFT mount to me. Why? Flange distances!
If that's a Sigma ART 24-35 f/2 (and it certainly looks like it is), it's not adapted for MFT. If it were, the lens would extend about an extra inch on the back end than on the EF/Nikon versions, to compensate for the difference in flange distance between EF/Nikon and MFT mounts (difference of 24.75mm, almost 1 inch, for EF, and 27.25mm, over 1 inch, for Nikon). Sigma could theoretically change the optics to make it work, but I think that's very unlikely. Usually how this stuff works (AFAIK) is they just compensate for differences in flange distances by making the body of the lens longer or shorter behind the rear element (see some of the Sony FE lenses for examples).
A changeable lens mount to cover both EF and MFT mounts within the body of the camera also seems somewhat problematic. The EF(?) lens pictured seems mounted flush with the body, which means that the MFT mount would have to recede into the body about an inch, so even if they could do it it might be a bit awkward to do lens swaps, work with pancake lenses (some of which only protrude probably close to an inch or so from the mount). I suppose they could make the interchangeable area really wide (perhaps a good portion of the front of the camera would swap out?) to allow room for things like that, so it still seems possible.
Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
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puredrifting
Major Contributor
Agreed. I dislike the lens selection, FOV and DOF with the M43 sensor. Not saying it cannot be used for professional level work, just that I personally dislike dealing with it as do most of the DPs and camera ops I know who have gone down that road.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
If it had a stabilized S35 sensor, & a beefier m4/3 mount, & Fujinon offered MK lenses with m4/3 mounts...
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
As usual Dan, we agree on all accounts.
dmitrizigany
Veteran
Hmm, if so, that's the full frame version of the 18-35...
Already when the FS5 was released I was surprised it wasn't full frame. And I have been expecting Sony to release a FF video camera in the FS series ever since...
The first manufacturer that can release a decent FF video camera somewhere around FS5-FS7 prices will sell boatloads, I believe.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
S-35 is the film standard.
"Full frame" is for DSLRs like the D810 and 5D Mk IV.
And Red Weapon.
"Full frame" is for DSLRs like the D810 and 5D Mk IV.
And Red Weapon.
filmguy123
Veteran
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