AC130: Panasonic ag ac130

Ah, Ok. So 130 would be a step down from everything I'm used to. I guess the way I see it is it's major compromises either way. . .on the one hand the HMC uses cheaper media that holds more, and doesn't need a fancy reader, but it has more compressed video and audio. The HPX has better video and audio, but a shorter zoom range, expensive media that holds far less, and needs a reader if you're going to offload while shooting (though my friend recommends getting a powerbook G4 as these have the PCI slot, apparently and can be had for not too much via ebay).
 
Josh Bass said:
Ah, Ok. So 130 would be a step down from everything I'm used to. I guess the way I see it is it's major compromises either way. . .on the one hand the HMC uses cheaper media that holds more, and doesn't need a fancy reader, but it has more compressed video and audio. The HPX has better video and audio, but a shorter zoom range, expensive media that holds far less, and needs a reader if you're going to offload while shooting (though my friend recommends getting a powerbook G4 as these have the PCI slot, apparently and can be had for not too much via ebay).
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For what it's worth, when the HPX170 and HMC150 came out, a few people tried both and said you couldn't really see any difference. It's not until you start doing heavy duty color grading that people are saying they're seeing a difference. And chances are it will handle it better than DV (Barry, please correct me if I'm wrong). While it's much more heavily compressed, it's a very good compression scheme. I mean, that's what they chose to go with in the AF100. Plus, the new AC130/AC160/HPX250 are using the chips from the from the HPX370, a *much* more expensive camera. So the imagers are much nicer (save for the whole CCD vs CMOS argument) and higher resolution.

Honestly, if given the choice right now between the HPX170 and the AC130, even if the cost of P2 media wasn't an issue I would go with the AC130. Unless you are doing something that specifically requires 4:2:2 color, I don't think you're going to see much if any of an improvement in DVCProHD over AVCHD for normal day to day stuff. And if the AC3 vs LPCM is an issue, go with the AC160.
 
Yeah, I've graded plenty of DV and I was able to deal with that. Regarding the audio issue. . .I thought about the 160, but now we're talking about another $1000. Is the AC3 able to stand up to any processing at all? Does it only really break down if you have to really jack up the audio?
 
Josh Bass said:
Yeah, I've graded plenty of DV and I was able to deal with that. Regarding the audio issue. . .I thought about the 160, but now we're talking about another $1000.
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Which, for what it's worth, isn't that much different in price from an HPX170 + a couple P2 cards. Just something to think about.

Is the AC3 able to stand up to any processing at all? Does it only really break down if you have to really jack up the audio?
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I can't answer that in an informed way... I learn enough about audio a while ago to know I'm really not an audio engineer, and generally don't need to mess with audio in post anyways.
 
The reason why they do anything is to make as much money as possible and make their stockholders happy.
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Right. And if they made an AVC-I camera that recorded to UHS class SD cards, they'd make even more money than they do now. Because I and probably a lot of other folks would be willing to upgrade from the 130 or 160 to a 250.

Keep in mind there's no call here for Panasonic to stop making P2 models of their AVC-I cameras for those who want P2. There's nothing wrong with serving both needs. Which really begs the question, why is anyone here argusing against what we want? How does it hurt any buyer if Panny were to make both models, one with P2 and one with SD?
 
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if ever there was a camera in this price range that deserves to have AVC-I, it's the AF100.
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I agree, The AF100 should be recording AVC-I to it's SD cards, not AVCHD. (I really don't know why people insist on attaching P2 media cards to AVC-I. It's really not technologically necessary. The codec and the medium are two different things. Just because Panny hasn't separated them yet doesn't mean they can't.)
 
Making and selling stuff simply because some people want it is a real good way of going out of business.
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Actually, so long as you make a profit at it, that's the only way to actually stay in business. Making and selling stuff without regard for what people want is the way you go out of business.
 
Do you guys think that when the AC130 comes out that the HMC150 will drop in price? I'm in the market for a 150 but I'm not sure if I should wait or not. I found a pretty good deal on a 150, $1700. I don't know if I will be able to find one cheaper than that when the 130 comes out.
Thanks
 
Look, Jim, I think you have to take a historical perspective and realize that Panasonic has been a unique driving force in bringing affordable high-quality HD acquisition to the masses. It's strange for us who have been on this ride for a long time to see someone complaining about Panny deliberately making something inaccessible for price-gauging reasons when Panasonic has (and continues to) lead the market in bringing high-level features to lower cost cameras.

P2 brought the price of HD acquisition down tremendously… look at the cost of tape that Panny took the market risk to start replacing.

The DVX brought 24p to the prosumer market.

The HVX brought HD in Panny's professional codecs and features like variable frame rates to an unprecedented low price level. And of course solid state recording.

The HMC brought the image quality of the HVX to an even lower pricepoint by introducing a new codec (ph mode) that would work on cheap media with little sacrifice in image quality.

The AF100 brought a large image sensor in a proper video camera body with interchangeable lenses and cheap media.

The ac130, ac160, and hpx250 bring the image quality and features of a great professional camera to a new affordable low cost… and is being made available immediately at 3 price levels that should make the technology available to anyone. The same sensors and optics! So that you can own a 130 and shoot the bulk of your work on that, tent or borrow a 160 or 250 for anything that needs those features, and have them match pretty much perfectly. This is a tremendous effort to make this technology affordable, NOT at all price-gouging

Seriously, look at history. Panny has led in lowering costs of higher quality acquisition. Panny has been a shining example of listening to and intrracting with users, and delivering their wishes. This should be appreciated.
 
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Jim, but my question still remains unanswered... don't you think that if Panasonic (which I'm sure has already done the research) could make even more money selling an AVC-I AC160/HPX250 type camera that recorded to SDXC cards, that they would already be doing that? I know there would be people out there willing to plunk down a little extra for such a camera (count me among them)... but is there enough of those people out there to make it worth their while?
 
I wasn't saying the camera would be out. I was saying its in time so that when the cameras do come out, you would have the almost perfect cards to use in it :smile:

I, and I would assume some other people, give or take a few weeks, would class it as "at the same time" when you have been waiting for years for a new camera :beer:
 
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