AC130: Panasonic ag ac130

Hi
My first post! I am seriously considering the purchase of the 160 - would Jan be able to confirm that the SDI out gives a full uncompressed signal rather than AVCHD? Also, could I expect the picture resolution to be on a par with the 250, except for the limitations of not being 4:2:2 and the limitations inherent in AVCHD?
Many thanks
 
MichaelUK said:
Hi
My first post! I am seriously considering the purchase of the 160 - would Jan be able to confirm that the SDI out gives a full uncompressed signal rather than AVCHD? Also, could I expect the picture resolution to be on a par with the 250, except for the limitations of not being 4:2:2 and the limitations inherent in AVCHD?
Many thanks
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SDI out is not AVCHD..it's uncompressed. You'll get 8-bit 4:2:2, whereas the 250 will be 10-bit 4:2:2.
 
MichaelUK said:
Hi
My first post! I am seriously considering the purchase of the 160 - would Jan be able to confirm that the SDI out gives a full uncompressed signal rather than AVCHD? Also, could I expect the picture resolution to be on a par with the 250, except for the limitations of not being 4:2:2 and the limitations inherent in AVCHD?
Many thanks
Click to expand...

The picture would be similar but not exactly the same as the Digital Signal Processing is different. But you would think they were similar. The HDSDI is full uncompressed 8 bit 4:2:2.

Best,

jan
 
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Hello Jan, I have a question about the 160/130. Is the firewire port always active?

It would be great to be able to record HD with the camera and send SD out the firewire for streaming.

Thanks
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
I understand this, but we did an interesting poll. We asked some of the "top" wedding and event shooters and held a focus group with them. They all shot with CMOS cameras and EX1-EX3s. All of their gear had been purchased within the last 3 years, so they could have bought a camera with the feature. Not a single person knew what Flash Band Compensation was. And not a single one did anything to resolve the Flash Bands in the final videos they delivered. It was a rather stunning revelation. That we had a feature that addressed an issue they had and they didn't even know about it, nor did they find the problem to be that big of an issue.

That said, the HPX250 has 20 bit DSP and the !^)/130 have 18 bit, and it is running on a different LSI, so it is not possible. I fought for it as I thought it would be a very valuable feature, and in the end the focus group basically deflated my entire argument.

Hope that helps,

Jan
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Jan,

I myself am a wedding and event videographer. Wedding videographers as a whole are a funny group. A lot of them are choosing to go the HDSLR route due to various factors. They'll put up with rolling shutter and other various issues all in the name of better image quality. I myself would rather shoot with a dedicated video camera like the AC130. I am also very interested in rolling shutter compensation. If this is just a matter of a firmware upgrade for the AG AC130 then please re-consider making it an option.

Thank you,
Mathew
 
Bassman2003 said:
Hello Jan, I have a question about the 160/130. Is the firewire port always active?

It would be great to be able to record HD with the camera and send SD out the firewire for streaming.

Thanks
Click to expand...

According to the specs listed in the latest brochure the IEEE1394 port is only active in DV mode.

DV OUT (DV mode only): 6 pin (IEEE1394 compliant), digital output only
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MathewM said:
Jan,
I am also very interested in rolling shutter compensation. If this is just a matter of a firmware upgrade for the AG AC130 then please re-consider making it an option.
Click to expand...

As Jan said in the post you quoted: "That said, the HPX250 has 20 bit DSP and the 160/130 have 18 bit, and it is running on a different LSI, so it is not possible."
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
I understand this, but we did an interesting poll. We asked some of the "top" wedding and event shooters and held a focus group with them. They all shot with CMOS cameras and EX1-EX3s. All of their gear had been purchased within the last 3 years, so they could have bought a camera with the feature. Not a single person knew what Flash Band Compensation was. And not a single one did anything to resolve the Flash Bands in the final videos they delivered. It was a rather stunning revelation. That we had a feature that addressed an issue they had and they didn't even know about it, nor did they find the problem to be that big of an issue.

That said, the HPX250 has 20 bit DSP and the !^)/130 have 18 bit, and it is running on a different LSI, so it is not possible. I fought for it as I thought it would be a very valuable feature, and in the end the focus group basically deflated my entire argument.

Hope that helps,

Jan
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The "top" wedding and event shooters are probably, for many of them, photographers who do video. I saw many of them and they don't know many things about video unfortunately.

I think if you would have done a poll here, you would have got a different result.

For me, the AC130/160 without flash band compensation is probably a showstopper for me because I also film events and weddings. The HPX250 is more appealing, but I have invested in many pro SDHC cards, not in P2 cards!

And BTW, your top wedding and event shooters will probably continue to use their DSLR to film their weddings, not a 3mos 1/3". So, it may not be the good crowd for this kind of camera. You should have asked to HMC150 users and this kind of users.
 
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I like using DSLR's for wedding shoots despite their pitfalls because the smaller form factor means I can carry less gear and move around quicker. I also use my smaller/lighter legs and tripod heads. But for regular ENG-style event shooting I'd definitely go with the AC130.
 
SPrimeau said:
The "top" wedding and event shooters are probably, for many of them, photographers who do video. I saw many of them and they don't know many things about video unfortunately.
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Your assessment of my focus group is not correct. The folks in my focus group were HMC150 users, EX3 users and EX1 customers. There were some that used DSLRs, but as second camera. That said, I wanted it, but the LSI in the AC160/130 camera cannot support it. So it looks like you will need to move to the AG-HPX250 and P2 to get this feature. Sorry, but we at least have that otion for you.

Best,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
So it looks like you will need to move to the AG-HPX250 and P2 to get this feature. Sorry, but we at least have that otion for you.
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I've pretty much made up my mind to go for the HPX-250. I'll just have to wait a bit longer, which will be a good thing. There is no way for me to try before buying so I will have time to learn how others are finding it in practice, both good and bad.

The main thing is overcoming my resistance to P2, but I think that just requires thinking about the media in a different way. I've been thinking of SD cards as something like tape and treating them as very temporary and fragile and needing to be replaced often. P2, on the other hand, is more permanent and reliable and it's okay to expect the cards to last many cycles.
 
Well Mike, I was kind of thinking the same way....but the pro's for me is that it is like tape. Think of the large file sizes and hard disk space required to store the files from the Hpx250. With Sd cards and the price going down, you can shoot and store the Sd cards like tape. Very inexpensive compared to other storage and just put them away. You just charge the client a few more dollar for the media and you always have a back up. You really can't do that with P2 cards. Also, who wants a lot of hard drives sitting around. I have had problems with those to. If one goes, there goes everything. Just a thought! I was in the same dilemma and I chose the ac160 because of that reason alone. Good luck
 
Let's not exaggerate...SD cards are not designed to be used only once...In fact, I'd rather use known good cards for a job (especially since the AC130/160 will allow you to record to 2 cards at once) then open up a new card on set and use that without testing it first.

If you're super paranoid and you use your cards extensively, maybe replace them every 6 months...but using them once and treating them like tapes is just silly.
 
It is not treating the SD cards like tape. But, lets say you are shooting on two cards simultaneously. You use one for the editing process and it is one of your reusable cards, the other is for backup only. 32 sandisk extreme $58, not hard to swallow just storing that away for a clients backup or for use another day in the future. That is all I was saying about the media. I am purchasing the Ac160 to get away from tape, but it is the Sd card media that is attracting me. I can pull uncompressed 4:2:2 from the Ac160 if needed for green screen, but still have file sizes that are not going to kill me to keep around. SD cards right now are for me do to the cost alone.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Your assessment of my focus group is not correct. The folks in my focus group were HMC150 users, EX3 users and EX1 customers. There were some that used DSLRs, but as second camera. That said, I wanted it, but the LSI in the AC160/130 camera cannot support it. So it looks like you will need to move to the AG-HPX250 and P2 to get this feature. Sorry, but we at least have that otion for you.

Best,

Jan
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Thanks Jan for the clarification.

I am really surprised that no users of the HM150 and EX1/3 know about flash bands! They should read a little bit about rolling shutter! If you don't know about rolling shutter, you'll not be aware of the limitations of CMOS.

I think I will keep my HMC150 for now. If I see a need for a new cam, I will see what is best for me at this time.
 
@Dstar... Invest in a blu-ray burner. 50GB disks costs are now on par with DV tape. Put them in decent storage container, and you're set for a few years. A lot cheaper than buying SDHC cards in the long run.
 
There are certainly some features that make these new cameras very appealing to me; the extra zoom, the dual SD card slot for backup recording, the widescreen lcd. But the cmos is what kills the deal for me. I hear a lot of conversations about how hmc150 users could never go dslr only or use the af-100 for event shooting due to the cmos sensors. So why the lack of concern over the change here? And can we assume that Panasonic is done with CCD in this pricerange? If they had added the things I mentioned above to the HMC150 and called it the HMC150B, I'd have my money down already. But as it stands, I'm taking a wait and see approach.
 
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