P2 Cards - got me again @#$%!

its probably your computer. The drivers that work with P2 cards on your PC can crash if something unorthadox happens. like the Antivirus software starts scanning the "newDrive" while its trying to organize the offload. or maybe a microsoft/apple update manger wants ot try to update the computer while your offlaoding. that can cause havoc. make sure you shut down EVERYthing that isnt 100% neccesary for offloading.
 
I, too, lost a ton of invaluable historical footage on P2 cards. I was so upset I began looking for options to P2 for HD recording. My producers still are! I am here to testify that P2 is NOT bullet proof. Things can go wrong, footage can be lost, PERIOD. Blame it on the computer, but I don't buy it. Not after my own experience. Both on a Mac and a PC, same clips were just trashed. I'm a retired IT Engineer, I think I know when it's the computer's fault, and it wasn't.

It's not common, may be very rare, but it does happen, P2 cards CAN and HAVE lost data before. I'm living proof.
 
damn man... dont know what to say, i dont use p2 cards yet, still using tapes. Personaly i think its rediculous that the p2 cards dont have some sort of recovery method on occasions like that.. i mean people can loose their credibility and jobs from loosing footage when filming important events. I can image the stress and anger of that.
 
JimmyTheSaint said:
Since I've had this rig and the relatively limited use it's seen - for me I'd say the P2 data disappearing act has been a pretty common occurance.

Perhaps Panasonic would like to come follow me around for a few days and we can find all the weak points of the system.
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You're hard pressed to find someone to believe you and I actually lost data on the P2 card itself. There's the mentality here that P2 is sent from God, is Divine, and more infallible than the Pope. But, I know that I lost clips on the P2 card, not on the Mac. Good luck getting anyone to listen, much less come see the problem first hand.

And my producers STILL are pushing me to find an HD format that's tape, because of this issue no one wants to acknowledge. Sad, but very much true.

So much for MXF being some universal standard...
 
Ben,

I have used film, tape, and P2 and so far P2 had been the only format that I have not lost anything on, yet it has made me worry the most during a shoot.

With film and video you generally do not know if you are hosed until you are in post. Then you are either resigned to cutting around the issue, or to a reshoot. If it was a live event, then you are just as hosed anyway.

With P2 you are typically shooting and then either witness a bad transfer yourself, or have a tech run up to you to deliver the bad news. I have been lucky enough to have either been born with an inordinate amount of patience under pressure, or just been prepared for such potential disasters.

When I have had P2 problems, I have always had an extra P2 to continue shooting to, setting aside the "bad" P2 card to resolve the situation later when the pressure is off. I also almost always have two laptops to transfer to on every job that needs it. The best solution is to have a digital tech that knows his/her stuff and that can calmly do the job and resolve the situation. Again this is prep, planning and having an adequate budget to pay for this extra person. No one said P2 was an inexpensive solution. So either on the set, or later in edit, I have been able to calmly place the "bad" P2 back in the HVX and confirm everything is there and then transfer the footage over firewire or through the 2nd laptops PC slot. In essence, I have always found a solution. I know that not everyone has.

So P2 is not a 100% solution now and may never be, but I don't know if anything ever has or will be. Throughout the evolution of cinema every format has had pluses and minuses, and I think it will continue that way for quite some time.

I hope you find some answers soon,

Rob
 
I have shot over 1000 cards and never lost a single clip - I dont mean to stoke the fire but i think this could be a workflow issue -

at what point do you see the clips are lost? what is the exact workflow and exact software being used - I always make sure to test the clips and archive to dvd before "clearing" a card for reuse/
 
JimmyTheSaint said:
I was using a G4 Powerbook with an internal PCMCIA slot.
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Well theres your problem!

Its a known issue that macs and p2 have an uneasy truce. Theres like 2 bigthreads on this here and how to minimize problmes.
 
Yeah, I started one of those threads. I'm well aware of that specific OS X problem. I've been documenting it and collecting peoples stories for a good while now. The specific loss of footage I refer to was NOT that. PC couldn't read the data, either.
 
I must admit I've put my camera and PowerBooks through hell the past 7mths.. from shooting in Blizzards to 4x4 driving and micro light shoots.... I've yet to lose any footage... I'm keeping my data base by numbering all the cards as I shoot...I'm up to Disc 183..

I had issues with downloading on a PC laptop but have not lost footage yet.. (touch wood).. I've had powerbooks lose battery power while transferring and to my surprise after replacing the battery the system continued to transfer the material.. no lose of data.. (not sure how the powerbooks manage that as there was no other power to the system but seems to hold a level of charge internally)..

I had P2 cards accendently being ejected as they were downloading while driving along a bumpy tracks, filming and downloading on my lap as we were going.. still no lose of data...

I don't think P2 is impervious to loss.. but in my limited experience it's proved very robust...

Cheers
 
I also have had no problems with loss from P2 except if the folder on my pc laptop was not labelled correctly which was a beginners mistake. I should have created the folder beforehand instead alpha or numerically, I dropped the contents folder in figuring I would rename it later. Either way, until I knew the exact file size was transferred and checked, there was no re-formatting done.
 
Dude, I know how it is believe me, and believe me when I say that I am not flying Panasonic's flag (my HVX is being repaired as we speak). However, you either have a bug in your workflow or you are very, very unlucky. 4 times in one night with different cards in addition to some historical issues, what is the constant?
 
BenB said:
You're hard pressed to find someone to believe you and I actually lost data on the P2 card itself. There's the mentality here that P2 is sent from God, is Divine, and more infallible than the Pope.

So much for MXF being some universal standard...
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Ben, it's not a matter of not believing you. It's a matter of we haven't had the issue. I certainly wouldn't dream of calling someone I lair or saying, "it's your fault!" when you've lost a ton of important footage (probably a good chance you'd drive up here and kick my ass). It's a matter of we judge things by our own experience. Currently, I've shot countless times with P2 and haven't had any issues. Once, when trying to offload from the camera, I got an error message and freaked out but it was fine once I restarted. Compared to the numerous dropped frames, weird blocks, and other issues I've had from tape, P2 has been a far preferible experience, so much so that I opt to do all my jobs with P2 when possible because of the easier workflow. I'm not dismissing any of your issues, just saying that so far P2 has worked wonderfully for me and I trust it. It's the same way I've seen you esposing the virtues of the FS-100 when other people have had issues with it. It all comes down to our own experiences and mine have been overwhelmingly posative.

Of course, if my cards fail me I'm sure all be full of riteous indignation if not pure rage.
 
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