Open request to CD for FS700 + Odyssey 7Q

ChadN said:
Would Convergent Design consider bringing back the deal where, if you already own the RAW bundle... you can use it on multiple devices? I've thought about getting the 7Q+, but i have the 7Q and really don't want to pay for RAW recording all over again. :(
Click to expand...
We never offered this. What we offered was a Loyalty Program where if you already owned an Odyssey7Q with RAW and then purchased an Odyssey7Q+ we would give you a duplicate RAW option on the new device. We said it was for a limited time, said how long that limited time would last, reminded everyone when that limited time was getting close to ending, and then even extended it a little bit for the stragglers.

No, we have no plans to offer this again.
 
jpham said:
Why not just include the RAW decoding into the O7Q+ - I was annoyed with having to fork another $1000 after buying the equipment. It s like buying a car, then found out you have to buy 4 wheels to drive off the lot. Yeah, some marketing folks (probably used to work for some telecom co?) every feature you have to fork over $$ to turn that feature on; I like to do that, add $ for every feature during videographing :(
Click to expand...
I don't come from "some telecom co," I was a working cinematographer for 20 years and then worked at a major sales/service/rental company for another 7.5 years before joining CD. I know our industry and what people expect out of their tools.

I also know how to read (and write) a product sheet. And from the beginning Convergent Design has been very upfront about what was and was not included in the Odyssey7Q+ should you care to look. If you did not understand what you were buying before you made the purchase then that is not our issue. We are very clear as to what we offer and how.
 
firehawk said:
Well I wonder how this apple .mov deal is going to affect the CD DnxHD situation. I hope they were not just about to finish it and make it available and now decide to scrap it.
I really want DnxHD/HR also for the O7Q+.
This apple deal is surprising. People seem to so often use and want ProRes ProRes Prores.... Even stock media is often in ProRes.
Click to expand...
We're not scrapping DNxHD.
 
Thanks Mitch. Your continued and substantial info and help on this forum is one of the factors that has sold me on the 7Q+
 
Historically speaking, C-D has always made well-intentioned promises, but, fails to deliver because along the way they get distracted by other projects/products. In this case, I would surmise Apollo has taken the resources from finalizing DNxHD on the O7Q. They're a fairly small company, so, I suspect they are very resource limited. Yet, they just chronically over-promise. Now, they have this policy of saying, "don't worry, we're working on it". They've been saying that for 2 years, now. Being a PC and Avid user, I've worked with Prores and put up with the .mov shtick for way too long. But, C-D has the ball in their court.

They did the same thing with their old Nanoflash, until the Nanoflash was discontinued, before they ever delivered on the last few enhancements. Mitch says he was burned by providing too many delivery dates, in the past. But, he fails to recognize that we, the customers, have also been let down by their chronic lack of fulfillment on the original promises. Personally, I'd much rather have DNxHD than some of these slo-mo features, or other bells and whistles that were never promised in the beginning.

The latest build has errors in triggering from the camera with the F5. I've reported this, but, C-D claims they're aware of the problem and has done nothing to fix it. I can only guess that their customer base with F5's is too limited for them to care enough to fix this. All in all, I'm fairly pissed off about C-D. Their general customer support, like Mitch's presence on this forum, is really quite unique, and laudable.
But, c'mon guys, enough is enough. I suppose some might think I'm being a bit harsh, especially given their good customer support via Mitch and Dan. However, it's pretty low to claim a capability at product release that never really exists.

I think C-D is responsive only to their biggest customers. In order to get C-D off their butt on delivering DNxHD, there has to be sufficient big customer demand for it.
 
Last edited:
I still haven't bought an external recorder yet, and as the purchase date draws closer and closer I'm leaning toward the Shogun due to the DNxHD/HR. The sooner CD can release that function, the better for them!
 
Dbatch said:
Hi Mitch, does DNx look to be sorted out and in firmware any time soon?
It's been forever since the release, and was a big appeal factor to choosing it over other recorders, as lots of broadcast clients still prefer DNx camera media for Avid.

(I'm ready to be off-and-running shooting DNxHD, or ideally xHR in 4K :thumbsup: )
https://youtu.be/5NVHwjtDy3g?t=3m47s
https://youtu.be/2JDNQNocsuo?t=4m16s
Click to expand...
I can't give any timelines, but it is definitely something we are working on.
 
cuervo said:
Historically speaking, C-D has always made well-intentioned promises, but, fails to deliver because along the way they get distracted by other projects/products. In this case, I would surmise Apollo has taken the resources from finalizing DNxHD on the O7Q. They're a fairly small company, so, I suspect they are very resource limited. Yet, they just chronically over-promise. Now, they have this policy of saying, "don't worry, we're working on it". They've been saying that for 2 years, now. Being a PC and Avid user, I've worked with Prores and put up with the .mov shtick for way too long. But, C-D has the ball in their court.

They did the same thing with their old Nanoflash, until the Nanoflash was discontinued, before they ever delivered on the last few enhancements. Mitch says he was burned by providing too many delivery dates, in the past. But, he fails to recognize that we, the customers, have also been let down by their chronic lack of fulfillment on the original promises. Personally, I'd much rather have DNxHD than some of these slo-mo features, or other bells and whistles that were never promised in the beginning.

The latest build has errors in triggering from the camera with the F5. I've reported this, but, C-D claims they're aware of the problem and has done nothing to fix it. I can only guess that their customer base with F5's is too limited for them to care enough to fix this. All in all, I'm fairly pissed off about C-D. Their general customer support, like Mitch's presence on this forum, is really quite unique, and laudable.
But, c'mon guys, enough is enough. I suppose some might think I'm being a bit harsh, especially given their good customer support via Mitch and Dan. However, it's pretty low to claim a capability at product release that never really exists.

I think C-D is responsive only to their biggest customers. In order to get C-D off their butt on delivering DNxHD, there has to be sufficient big customer demand for it.
Click to expand...
We recognize that there is customer demand for DNxHD, in fact now more than ever with Apollo. It is different people working on DNx implementation, so one project does not draw effort away from the other.

I believe the issue you brought to our attention is addressed in our upcoming firmware. As are several others.

We recognize that there have been many statements from Convergent Design over the years about future functions, and that sometimes our eyes are bigger than our stomachs. That was wrong of us and we have changed our policies accordingly. As Director of Communications I take a chunk of this blame. But we ARE moving forward. If you look back at the long list of claims we made over the years, the fact is that we have eventually come through with most of them, and also threw in many innovations that were never mentioned from the outset. This doesn't make up for what hasn't come to fruition, but I am trying to give some perspective to the issue.

We are actively working on DNx. It is a real project at Convergent Design. I cannot give a timeline but it is something that we want done and available to our clients. I don't know how I can be more clear on the subject.
 
Mitch,
Thanx for speaking up about this, in what I consider a reasonable answer. DNxHD/HR would be very welcome. It is what it is, best is to just move forward.
 
I've been under the impression, or rather speculation, that it's merely a licensing thing. Why spend the money if 90% of your users are happy with Prores. This is why I keep mentioning it, in the hopes that more users that want it will speak up. I accepted this as a business decision, even if I didn't like it.

So Mitch, when you say you are actively working on it, does that mean you are having technical challenges? I mean, it's been over 14 years since I worked in software dev, but I refuse to believe integrating DNx encoding requires 3 years of active development.
 
seanmc said:
I've been under the impression, or rather speculation, that it's merely a licensing thing. Why spend the money if 90% of your users are happy with Prores. This is why I keep mentioning it, in the hopes that more users that want it will speak up. I accepted this as a business decision, even if I didn't like it.

So Mitch, when you say you are actively working on it, does that mean you are having technical challenges? I mean, it's been over 14 years since I worked in software dev, but I refuse to believe integrating DNx encoding requires 3 years of active development.
Click to expand...
Your speculation is incorrect. For both Apple ProRes and AVID DNx, we must write our own code. We are given specs and other information, but in the end we must do the work. We then jump through some hoops and get certified, but that is at the end of a very long chain of events.

The demand was HEAVILY in the Apple ProRes camp so we completed this first. Then we improved it, and made it more efficient so that we could do more things with it. Then came higher frame rates, and then higher resolutions, and then conversion from RAW to Apple ProRes at higher frame rates and higher resolutions. And don't forget that we also had to create the decoder to play back the files in the unit. And then we had to improve that (Yeah, I know. It's in the next firmware.). And there's also HQ v. 422 v. LT. And let's not forget that we added 4444XQ & 4444, in 12-bit or 10-bit, and in 2K & HD.

So all these things take time. And then we can concentrate on DNx. And while there are similarities between these codecs, there are also differences. And we're not just talking about one thing here. We have different resolutions, different frame rates, different compression levels, straight video inputs as well as RAW conversions, etc. Try making a matrix of all those variables and you get a sense of the numbers at play. And we really would prefer to release something that was fairly complete, rather than something like (and I'm making this completely up) "You can shoot in this codec but only at this resolution and compression level, and then you can't play it back in the unit." That's no fun for anyone.

Like I said, it's an active project. We're working on it.
 
I think with the downfall of quicktime for windows user, DNXHD (.MXF) is more important than ever! I'm with you seanmc.
 
I doubt the issue is technical, or even licensing. It's probably due more to the priority list of to-do's in C-D's programming department. C-D has chosen other, more lucrative projects than to finalize DNxHD. That's what I find particularly so annoying. But then, what do I know?
 
Recordable LUT's yes. My favourite sentence! Mitch you dodged my last post about it, any chance it will be in the next update?
thanks.
 
My biggest wishes:

1) A way for the LUT transfer app to automatically create -1 and -2 LUTs as an option

2) Redesigned user interface. It feels like you're in MS DOS.
 
Call me weird but I kind of like the UI, it's very industrial in a retro kind of way...maybe the only thing I'd change is the battery gauge? I have no idea how to read that thing, I just wait for the low power pop-up message to change batts.
 
I like the UI as well, and agree a more useful battery meter would be a welcome addition!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top