Mitch Gross
Veteran
Yes, thank you for the clarification opportunity. With the February Firmware release we will record up to 30p, but in the future we will go up to 60p.
Odyssey7Q February 2014 Firmware Update
- Thread starter Mitch Gross
- Start date
Clermond
Veteran
the C100 and 5DM3 have both a 8bit output. It's the recorder that wrappes the output in a 10bit stream but your data is still 8bit. Probably the same with your EX-1 but I don't know the camera.
paulcurtis
Veteran
I'm pretty sure the EX1 was actually 10bit out. Those were the days! The EX1 was a solid camera.
cheers
Paul
Mitch Gross
Veteran
EX1 is indeed 10-bit.
timmytimetravel
Well-known member
Finally got my SSDs! Just did a quick fs700 HFR test in demo mode. Ignoring the demo bar across it, and having formatted both ssd's in the unit before recording. The files from each ssd's appear to have a different gamma or some such. When I merge them I just get flicker.
When viewed on the Odessey 7q though, playback is the same lumience playing back in slowmo and everything is fine. I did a 2nd clip, same result. I had been trying to run some deflicker software in fcpx across it assuming it was just the fluro's above, but now I realise it is super uniform, and it does not really seem to have much regular fluro banding. I will of course run another test with my kino's on batteries etc, but before I get time to do so, is this a known one fixed in the firmware? Related to the white balance thing perhaps?
Or are the fluro's flicker so uniform I can preview down the dng's from ssd1 in finder all at one brightness/balance, and then do the same for the 2nd set, all at another uniform brightness/balance?
I am so certain I am just missing something here, but then why does it look fine when played back on the 7q? This forum won't let me attach a .dng so here is exported as jpeg from preview.
When viewed on the Odessey 7q though, playback is the same lumience playing back in slowmo and everything is fine. I did a 2nd clip, same result. I had been trying to run some deflicker software in fcpx across it assuming it was just the fluro's above, but now I realise it is super uniform, and it does not really seem to have much regular fluro banding. I will of course run another test with my kino's on batteries etc, but before I get time to do so, is this a known one fixed in the firmware? Related to the white balance thing perhaps?
Or are the fluro's flicker so uniform I can preview down the dng's from ssd1 in finder all at one brightness/balance, and then do the same for the 2nd set, all at another uniform brightness/balance?
I am so certain I am just missing something here, but then why does it look fine when played back on the 7q? This forum won't let me attach a .dng so here is exported as jpeg from preview.
Last edited:
Kyron
Well-known member
Hey timmy, I would hazard a guess that the fluro's are the culprit. I'm not sure why playback on the 7q isn't flickering though. That's really weird.
I've done 200 and 240fps tests in natural light and have seen nothing like this on my 7Q clips. But maybe the frequency of our lights being 50hz could be the problem. 200fps is exactly divisible by 50 which could explain a very uniform flicker.
I've never seen a fluro that doesn't flicker over a shutter speed of 100 in my house.
I've done 200 and 240fps tests in natural light and have seen nothing like this on my 7Q clips. But maybe the frequency of our lights being 50hz could be the problem. 200fps is exactly divisible by 50 which could explain a very uniform flicker.
I've never seen a fluro that doesn't flicker over a shutter speed of 100 in my house.
timmytimetravel
Well-known member
Kyron, you are probably right. I'll do another test under battery kino, led or tungsten. I had another thought to rescue that footage (not the one above) as well as clarify the issue. I'll just edit one ssd worth of frames. 100fps. That might shed some light..... ha ha.
Maybe, just maybe the reason the 7q screen plays it back ok, maybe it's only playing back half the frames? No raid playback maybe? I might playback direct to another screen from hdmi out. See how that looks ...
Maybe, just maybe the reason the 7q screen plays it back ok, maybe it's only playing back half the frames? No raid playback maybe? I might playback direct to another screen from hdmi out. See how that looks ...
Last edited:
timmytimetravel
Well-known member
Interesting. Plays out fine using hdmi out of the 7q to a projector. So on 7q screen and hdmi out fine, but on ssd different gammas or somesuch for each ssd recording that follows through into edit.
Incidentally Kyron, probably a red herring for your audio quest thread, but I noticed it would not actually playback hdmi output in fs700 raw mode unless it saw fs700 raw input!!!??? Eg, If I tried to play back a raw recorded clip over hdmi using it as a playback source, say walked it over to a big plasma. I would need to take the fs700 (probably still rigged) over there and give it an input signal in order to output previous clips.
Hope thats on the fixed/to be fixed list. I thought maybe it was because it was outputting raw passthrough, I flipped it to non-fs700 regular mode, and it would not play it back at all. I cannot record non raw HFR to test it to see if its a quirk of that mode only, as I don't want to mess with my ssd's until I sort the other issue, and cannot mix recording.. yet....
So at the moment, the recording mode is tied to the playback mode. Glad I am geting to know the quirks before taking it to set. Loving the quality though. Learning the .dng>resolve>fcpx workflow which I probably wont use every again after march... bring on popular codec!
Incidentally Kyron, probably a red herring for your audio quest thread, but I noticed it would not actually playback hdmi output in fs700 raw mode unless it saw fs700 raw input!!!??? Eg, If I tried to play back a raw recorded clip over hdmi using it as a playback source, say walked it over to a big plasma. I would need to take the fs700 (probably still rigged) over there and give it an input signal in order to output previous clips.
Hope thats on the fixed/to be fixed list. I thought maybe it was because it was outputting raw passthrough, I flipped it to non-fs700 regular mode, and it would not play it back at all. I cannot record non raw HFR to test it to see if its a quirk of that mode only, as I don't want to mess with my ssd's until I sort the other issue, and cannot mix recording.. yet....
So at the moment, the recording mode is tied to the playback mode. Glad I am geting to know the quirks before taking it to set. Loving the quality though. Learning the .dng>resolve>fcpx workflow which I probably wont use every again after march... bring on popular codec!
timmytimetravel
Well-known member
Hmmm. 1 ssd rendered fine through resolve and fcpx. No banding (was none before with both ssd's), no flickering. Maybe its the golden ticket! If you are forced to shoot under fluro's at hfr. Shoot at 200fps, then just keep 100fps. Bingo! Unless its not the fluros of course.....
sunnyjimfilms
Well-known member
You'll still have to use that work flow for the HFRs unless we get continuous HFRs in Pro Res which would be as good as it gets for me.
Colinelves
Well-known member
I expect it's the flouros. Often at 200fps I don't see any banding - I see that more often at regular speeds with 'off' shutter speeds (e.g. 1/60th in Europe)
In fact quite often I don't see any flicker issues until I get into an edit suite - even on quite big location monitors (as in 7inch sized ones like the O7Q). If you want to check just shoot some HFR in the daytime. The sun is a big bright, continuous source - I wouldn't trust Kinos. I certainly didn't notice these issues when I shot a quick HFR test (looking back in resolve).
i wouldn't bother flagging this as an issue until you've checked it properly.
The output issue is a problem though - hopefully they can fix it in the firmware update.
In fact quite often I don't see any flicker issues until I get into an edit suite - even on quite big location monitors (as in 7inch sized ones like the O7Q). If you want to check just shoot some HFR in the daytime. The sun is a big bright, continuous source - I wouldn't trust Kinos. I certainly didn't notice these issues when I shot a quick HFR test (looking back in resolve).
i wouldn't bother flagging this as an issue until you've checked it properly.
The output issue is a problem though - hopefully they can fix it in the firmware update.
timmytimetravel
Well-known member
Tested under Led, fine no flicker. Still a mystery to me how the 7q can play back that flickered footage with no flicker not just internally but to an external screen attached to 7q hdmi output. Whereas the two sets of frames have such different brightness.
Only way I can think is if its only reading 100fps on playback from only one of the raided ssds. Can't really see that ever being an issue. I guess if its 200fps content it might even be skipping frames from one ssd on playback to keep the playback rate the same.
Now that I've confirmed my original assumption, fluro flicker but without banding, (thanks all), I can switch SSD modes, might test with non-raided recording of hfr with flicker and output 7q to hdmi screen. See if I still get magical flicker free direct playback and output. I really like to know what the device is doing before a time crunch moment and scratching my head. (such as I would never have guessed input signal required for output playback).
Only way I can think is if its only reading 100fps on playback from only one of the raided ssds. Can't really see that ever being an issue. I guess if its 200fps content it might even be skipping frames from one ssd on playback to keep the playback rate the same.
Now that I've confirmed my original assumption, fluro flicker but without banding, (thanks all), I can switch SSD modes, might test with non-raided recording of hfr with flicker and output 7q to hdmi screen. See if I still get magical flicker free direct playback and output. I really like to know what the device is doing before a time crunch moment and scratching my head. (such as I would never have guessed input signal required for output playback).
timmytimetravel
Well-known member
Tested. Normal HFR dpx non-raided recorded from the buffer out over sdi using S&Q on the FS700 displays clear flicker when played back on the 7q. (and one could assume direct output).
So that would be one to watch out for. In raw mode, HFR looks fine on hdmi direct ouput and playback on the 7q, but may be only playing back half the frames and/or skipping and be flicker free, but you may have flicker and have to chuck half the frames out in edit. (assuming you've magically got exact multiplied framerate flicker, not off framerate banding).
So that would be one to watch out for. In raw mode, HFR looks fine on hdmi direct ouput and playback on the 7q, but may be only playing back half the frames and/or skipping and be flicker free, but you may have flicker and have to chuck half the frames out in edit. (assuming you've magically got exact multiplied framerate flicker, not off framerate banding).
waefre
Well-known member
Is there going to be an update for the Odyssey to do 3:2 pulldown or is there some way I should be rrecording I don't know about? I got this monitor for use with my Fs700 but of course the first time I get to take it out on a gig I'm shooting with a C300. I brought it just to use as an on camera monitor but wanted to put it through it's paces too. Although we were shooting in 24P It seems the C300 will only output a 29.97 signal with a pulldown for when dealing with 24. I tried several different frame settings but all had the jaggies from the pulldown. The monitor is beautiful by the way and the image is spectacular, I could not be happier with my purchase.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
We will include a 3:2 pulldown removal in a future update.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Yes, although I think there may be slight differences in the signal. But we will work with both.
Hello Mitch,
I really don't want to complain, because I am really grateful that you guys came up with such a (supposingly) great device, but my main concern right now is the availability in Europe. There are basically no 7Qs here. None of the big resellers have them, I have been on preorder for months now and nobody can tell me when they get to Europe. And now, the BMD Production camera 4K got a price drop and seems to be available soon... SO, is there any hint about when we Europeans can be proud owners of a 7Q?
Some info would be much appreciated.
Kind regards from Germany,
Tobsen
I really don't want to complain, because I am really grateful that you guys came up with such a (supposingly) great device, but my main concern right now is the availability in Europe. There are basically no 7Qs here. None of the big resellers have them, I have been on preorder for months now and nobody can tell me when they get to Europe. And now, the BMD Production camera 4K got a price drop and seems to be available soon... SO, is there any hint about when we Europeans can be proud owners of a 7Q?
Some info would be much appreciated.
Kind regards from Germany,
Tobsen
rheinturmblau
Well-known member
The single European distributor seems to be a kind of bottleneck.
Mitch announced a new batch of units to be shipped to Europe, soon. I hope, the quantity is able to balance out global availability, as units else where seem to be on stock, now. Dan and Mitch: Put some more units on board that truck, please!
I have not heard any notice from my dealer, too. I also ordered CD's Sony L-Series Battery Plate and SSDs, so they may try to fulfill my order in a single delivery. I have to wait anyway, until the Feb Firmware update is released and, more important for two long-term-documentaries, 4K compressed recoding is available a.s.a.p.
Mitch announced a new batch of units to be shipped to Europe, soon. I hope, the quantity is able to balance out global availability, as units else where seem to be on stock, now. Dan and Mitch: Put some more units on board that truck, please!
I have not heard any notice from my dealer, too. I also ordered CD's Sony L-Series Battery Plate and SSDs, so they may try to fulfill my order in a single delivery. I have to wait anyway, until the Feb Firmware update is released and, more important for two long-term-documentaries, 4K compressed recoding is available a.s.a.p.
Last edited:
Thanks for the info rheinturmblau.
I really need this new codec as well for a longterm documentary. Unfortunately, I had to shoot the first short part in the FS700 internal codec in FullHD, even though I wanted to shoot it all in 4K. Worst case scenari, I have to cancel and go for a different set-up.
I really need this new codec as well for a longterm documentary. Unfortunately, I had to shoot the first short part in the FS700 internal codec in FullHD, even though I wanted to shoot it all in 4K. Worst case scenari, I have to cancel and go for a different set-up.