Odyssey Firmware 2015.5

SKYLIKE said:
Another problem: why are LUTs clipping in extended range and in legal range its not?
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It is based on what range was the LUT written for? Was it modifying an Extended image or was it modifying a Legal one? So to compensate it may appear to be reversed to you, but understand that it is about how the LUT is intended to be used.
 
cuervo said:
...or, you could, just as easily, expose the LC709A LUT to set white at 90%, then apply the -2 LUT in post. Same, same.
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Right, but then it would look overexposed on your Odyssey and the feed to your clients. Great thing about a LUT is you can have a proper image to look at on set.
 
digger said:
Really looking forward to using this update. This might be an easy question, but I've never used the REC 709 (800%) before with the Odyssey 7Q. Is it as simple as just going into any Picture Profile and changing the gamma to that?

Also, include me in the list of those who would love to be able to bake a LUT into the footage. So often I hand off Slog2 to clients only to see them butcher the grading. It would be so nice to give them a finished look that couldn't be messed up (this is why I'm interested in experimenting witht he REC 709 (800%).
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There is a Picture Profile already preset to REC709(800%).
 
Mitch Gross said:
Right, but then it would look overexposed on your Odyssey and the feed to your clients. Great thing about a LUT is you can have a proper image to look at on set.
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Yep! I totally love that I can apply a LUT without affecting the zebra/wfm.
 
cuervo said:
Yep! I totally love that I can apply a LUT without affecting the zebra/wfm.
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Again how our new integrated system is so powerful. View a "normalized" image and expose using the technically precise tools. Or not, your choice. Nothing else on the market like it, unless you dragged in a cart full of gear.
 
Nick_Shaw said:
Because that is what it was designed to do.

Shoot at e.g. T5.6, then open up two stops to T2.8. Apply the standard LC709A LUT to the first clip, and the -2 LC709A LUT to the second, and the image should look the same ....
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Maybe im just tired but thats definatly not the case. Its way underexposed.
A normal slog2 to 709 is pushing the grey from 32 to 40-45 .... when ur -2 stop LUT is ONLY pushing the exposure down its wrong constructed. The -2 Stop LUT shouldnt do anything about exposure.

For example when im using a Alexa i can change logc to 709 because the grey point is nearly the same and the LUT doesnt push exposure at all. That should be the way the LUT should work or am i missing something here?

When u rerate the FS700 to 500ISO ... u would need to do the normal LC709A + -2 LC709A to get the picture right in terms of exposure. 2 LUTS on one clip :D
 
SKYLIKE said:
.... when ur -2 stop LUT is ONLY pushing the exposure down its wrong constructed. The -2 Stop LUT shouldnt do anything about exposure.
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We are obviously talking at cross purposes somehow. The -2 stop LUT is designed for the specific purpose of reducing the exposure by two stops, hence the name. If you do not want to reduce the exposure, you should not be using that LUT.

For example when im using a Alexa i can change logc to 709 because the grey point is nearly the same and the LUT doesnt push exposure at all. That should be the way the LUT should work or am i missing something here?
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The mid grey level for LogC is at about 40% and so is the mid grey for Rec.709. That is why an Alexa LUT does not move that particular value. The mid grey for S-Log2 is at 32% so an S-Log2 to Rec.709 LUT moves 32% to about 40%. That is not "pushing exposure". It it transforming between two different formats.

One of the changes Sony made with S-Log3 was to set the mid grey point at about 40% (41% actually) probably to reduce this kind of confusion.
 
I must say I am really blown away by loadable LUT function. I am aware that I was criticizing ConvergentDesign for every delay but this feature lifts the 7Q to a complete new level and in the way I complained before I would now like to thank C-D. So thanks a lot for supplying this for free. The supplied FS700 LC709a LUT looks quite weird but it should be easy to create your own LUTs with a X-Rite color checker and a little adjustment in Resolve. I compared the 7Q side by side with the calibrated EIZO and its real wysiwyg. WOW. Thanks.
 
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Clermond said:
The supplied FS700 LC709a LUT looks quite weird
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Can you expand on what you mean by "quite weird" or post an image? It looks perfectly reasonable on all the images I have tested it on. Are you sure you are not using the S-Log3 LUT on an S-Log2 image?
 
Sorry me again. But im still very sure that the - 2 LC709a is not mapping SLOG2 to 709 in terms of brightness. (it would hit if u expose +4 stops). It just cuts by 2 stops.
 
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Nick_Shaw said:
Can you expand on what you mean by "quite weird" or post an image? It looks perfectly reasonable on all the images I have tested it on. Are you sure you are not using the S-Log3 LUT on an S-Log2 image?
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After some peeping i'd say the same as Clermond does, the lc709a lut looks a bit weird. Way to green/blueish than the original alexa 709 lut - yes the original alexa lut has a slight shift to green as well, but not to that degree, way less.

pretty weird is that it looks great in tungsten lighting conditions, where WB is set to 3200K for lights that are around 2800K, but it looks off and blueish in daylight conditions, where i usually set WB to 5600K for a normal, sunny day.
 
stefanhuberfilms said:
Ok Mitch, re hidden gems: is it correct that we can now record 120p@ Bursts @4K to ProRes? Just tried that and it worked...
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Interesting that you ask that. I noticed that yesterday when testing that the Odyssey allowed me to record a 120p 4k burst. I got really excited but the playback and recording was very stuttery (using 256gb CD drive) so obviously they have some bugs to work out
 
doo doo doo lookin' out my backdoor



Hey Folks,

The 17:9 works and the slog3 LUT is better. Still too saturated and the green is a bit too green.

With respect due to Creedence Clearwater Revival, the following stream is looking out of a window near my front door:

http://ustre.am/5xw0

The FS7 is shooting 4096x2160/23.98, Slog3/Slog3.cine and feeding such to the Oddy via HDMI. The Oddy is set for 17:9 display and the LC709A LUT. I have brought the green down a bit and the contrast and red up a bit. Still is too green and too saturated but close enough for now. I am maybe a little under as the sun may return.

The Oddy is feeding letterboxed 1080p/23.98 via SDI A to an AJA IO Express that is connected to a legacy Mac Pro running Wirecast 4.3.1. Wirecast is sending a letterboxed 1080p/23.98 flash encoded signal to Ustream.

Y'all have some fun,
Robert
PS: Add my thanks to CD, the no 17:9 was my BIG complaint and they fixed the issue. With the other stuff added this device is more than I expected. I think my only other request would be DMxHD/HR as I am one of those pesky Avid users.
 
infohou said:
doo doo doo lookin' out my backdoor



Hey Folks,

The 17:9 works and the slog3 LUT is better. Still too saturated and the green is a bit too green.

With respect due to Creedence Clearwater Revival, the following stream is looking out of a window near my front door:

http://ustre.am/5xw0
<Stuff Removed>
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Ran out of daylight. Killing stream:)
 
stefanhuberfilms said:
Ok Mitch, re hidden gems: is it correct that we can now record 120p@ Bursts @4K to ProRes? Just tried that and it worked...
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Whoops, did we leave that on?

I honestly don't know. I'm checking with the boys in engineering, but I'm at CineGear and don't have an FS700 handy to check.

If this was in fact left on it was done so by mistake, and I would caution that it is still a beta-mode function. That means that it is not considered reliable and I would not suggest using it for paid work, or perhaps even at all. It could cause corruptions to your file and possibly effect other recorded files. Don't want to sound alarmist but there are reasons that our testing takes so damn long.

Hidden gem? Consider this one on double-secret probation.

I'll let you know more when I hear back.
 
SKYLIKE said:
Sorry me again. But im still very sure that the - 2 LC709a is not mapping SLOG2 to 709 in terms of brightness. (it would hit if u expose +4 stops). It just cuts by 2 stops.
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I don't know if you're talking in circles or cross-purposes or what. Let me try a different approach.

Forget about S-Log2 and middle grey. Forget about IRE levels. Forget all that video crap for a moment.

The idea is to overexpose the image ON THE CAMERA by two stops. Then use the LUT to show you what it looks like when you darken the image back down in post. That's it. That's all you really need to know.

Why do this?

Reason #1: There is noise in the bottom few stops of dymanic range of the camera. Darkening the image in post means those noisy parts of the image are pushed down into black, effectively hiding them or at least lowering their impact. The result is a less noisy image, but also one with an overall smaller dynamic range because you loose a couple of stops in the bottom as they are pushed into blackness.

Reason #2: With a digital signal, fewer and fewer bits are allocated to the image the darker it gets. When you get down to the last few stops there is very little space to store information, so there are larger and larger gaps. Large gaps can lead to banding. By overexposing the image, there are more bits being allocated to the parts of the image you will actually use. The parts that have very few bits are going to be pushed down into blackness anyway. So you get more information packed into the part of the image you will actually be using, which means greater control of color correction and less chance of banding. Over exposing by two stops effectively turns a 10-bit signal into a 12-bit signal, at least for the parts of the signal you actually care about.

So how do I expose this?

Two choices: Use the Exposure tools to set middle grey of S-Log2 to a "proper"38 IRE and then open up the lens iris by two stops, or apply the exposure compensation LUT and light the thing so that it looks right to you. Or with our oh-so-powerful Odyssey LUT System you can do both: Set the OLED image to show the exposure compensation LUT and set the Monitoring Tools to LUT OFF so that you can precisely ride the IRE level. You can make it work however you like, but the effect is the same. Overexpose on the camera and then use color correction (i.e. a LUT) to darken the image back to the proper level.

Does this make sense to all?
 
Whichever Prores variation I choose I still get time remaining 2:39 on my 256GB drives - is this correct? Surely LT should give me more time?
 
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