No HVX for me

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Pascal_Parvex said:
Uh, that's bad. I thought that HDV is always 25 MB/s? And for what does E-E stand for? Uncompressed output? Same question for ENG, as I keep reading it, but don't know what it means.
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No the 1080s are 25mbs, the 720 is 19mbs. E-E is Electronics to Electronics, just plain old camer output to monitor input, no recording involved. No one is looking at what the recording will do to that lovely signal. ENG is Electronic News Gathering, came about because it used to be all done with film and when this new fangled video stuff came along, they needed a term to identify the process vs. the film crew. EFP is Electronic Field Production or Electronic Film PRoduction.

Hope this helps,

Jan
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
NASA jus did an extensives set of tests on the HDV cameras and the HVX, and their initial reaction was the same as disjecta, but after making recordins and then analyzing the recordings, they will be purchasing the HVX, and a bunch of them.
Jan
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Jan
Where will Nasa use those HVXs? I mean, in what kind of environment? And for what kind of job? Did they test the DVCPRO25/50 or the -HD as the recording standard? When NASA order a bunch of them , how many are we talking about here.. 4 - 400? Or more?

Did they test the HVX in ~ minus 20-36 C°? How the servo of the focus acts in minus C° ?

Thank You
 
SergejIvanovits said:
Jan
Where will Nasa use those HVXs? I mean, in what kind of environment? And for what kind of job? Did they test the DVCPRO25/50 or the -HD as the recording standard? When NASA order a bunch of them , how many are we talking about here.. 4 - 400? Or more?

Did they test the HVX in ~ minus 20-36 C°? How the servo of the focus acts in minus C° ?

Thank You
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The HVXs will be used in a number of applications from going into sapce as well as on the ground. They were not looking at DV50 or 25 as that was not their interest. And it could be about 20 cameras to start.

As far as cold, not sure if they tested that but there is another customer in New Zealand who took it to Antartica, and recorded at -47C, and other than the LCD being a little lagy, it recorded just fine.

Best,

jan
 
thank you Jan,

I was almost 100% sure the HVX as the other camcorders as well can record in minus C°, but my bigest concern is the manual focus. I had problems with the manual focus with the DVX. Even not so much as with other Sony's. On some camcorders I can't turn the focusring or they just missing contact with the servo which means the manual focus is gone, only the auto or one push focus are working. Even if I was using a warmed Polar Bear I did get problems some times. Maybe because if the front glass is cold than it gives the temparatur toward to other parts of the lens and the focus ring and servo is in the Leica.
 
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Glad to hear NASA's on board. I use thier other two favorite brands, Nikon and Hasselblad. Although NASA has a tendency to request special versions of cameras designed for specific purposes.
nasaf4_front.jpg
nasaf4_back.jpg

Jan, any chance of a HVX NASA special edition, with HD-SDI, TC out and a built in waveform? I'm sure I coudn't afford one, but it would be awesome!
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
The HVXs will be used in a number of applications from going into sapce as well as on the ground. They were not looking at DV50 or 25 as that was not their interest. And it could be about 20 cameras to start.

As far as cold, not sure if they tested that but there is another customer in New Zealand who took it to Antartica, and recorded at -47C, and other than the LCD being a little lagy, it recorded just fine.

Best,

jan
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okay so i guess for persons going to the south pole or the moon, the HVX is the camera of choice.
 
-47°C is very common in Antartica. In winter, you easily reach -60°C (Record is -89°C).
And I don't speak about space.
So, Nasa will certainly not use hvx200 out of the box.
 
brianluce said:
okay so i guess for persons going to the south pole or the moon, the HVX is the camera of choice.
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I can see the Panasonic HVX-200 commercial now........

VO/Sounds of space flight

"Maybe your not going to the Moon....."

[Show HVX floating inside Space Shuttle, astronaut videos fellow astronaut]
[Astronaut does flip in slo-mo]

VO/Sounds of fierce winds blowing

"Or even the South Pole"

[Show cameraman with HVX shooting explorer by South Pole]
[Show the explorer shot]

VO/Rock Music

"But you might need a great camera to capture your next masterpiece"

[Show DP using HVX to video the band]
[Show the band]

VO/Phillip Glass sound alike music

"Or the dream you had last night"

[Show DP using HVX to capture time-lapse clouds or city scene]
[Show the timelapse]

VO/Sound FX

"The Panasonic AG-HVX-200, free your creative soul."

CG: "All the footage in this commercial was acquired with the AG-HVX-200"
For more information visit: www.panasonic.com
 
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HVXguy said:
I can see the Panasonic HVX-200 commercial now........

VO/Sounds of space flight

"Maybe your not going to the Moon....."
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LOL!

If I was in a little space ship I may lean towards an HVX. Shoulder mount isn't so important in zero G I guess :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

I think HDV is generally a great recording system for this level of camera. Sure, I wouldn't choose it for a Arri D20, but these cameras are a long way off that. I think that the tiny chips and cheap lenses cause more problems than the codec.

As far as disjecta is concerned, I may be more weary of HDV because he shoots a load of aquatic birds. Rippling water isn't HDV best friend and as tools, HDV cameras may not be best suited to the task.
 
mmm said:
LOL!

I think that the tiny chips and cheap lenses cause more problems than the codec.
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I don't think it will matter in the long run. The HVX-200 is just a warm-up for what is ahead. With my little $6000 camera I am outputting DVD's that are far and away better than anything I ever shot on BetaSP or DV. That is what I am comparing too. 35MM film is still king for features and commercials. But what do you think the ratio of National spots vs. local/regional spots is???
 
HVXguy said:
I don't think it will matter in the long run. The HVX-200 is just a warm-up for what is ahead. With my little $6000 camera I am outputting DVD's that are far and away better than anything I ever shot on BetaSP or DV.
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This is where we see a huge improvement.

BTW, what are you using to encode and author with?
 
That was a good point about the kind of shooting I do being compatible with HDV and its weaknesses.

Shoot! I looked at some more Canon H1 samples again and I can't help salivating over the resolution.

If you go to PappasArts site and take a look at the file called Magic Hour.m2t, you'll see what I mean. The palm trees on the horizon are razor sharp, it's just beautiful.

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/...1 HI-DEF FOOTAGE&templatefn=FileSharing1.html

Sorry Michael, hope I'm not clogging up your bandwidth.

I know this is not the place but how is anyone dealing with 24fps on the Canon? Are they editing on an HDV timeline? What NLE supports it?

So yeah, there's no doubt that I will rent before I buy and maybe I won't buy until the next generation comes....maybe as early as next year? Rumor has it that a new camera by JVC is on the horizon, the HD250 but it's probably still HDV...

Oh well, I'll be interested to hear what people thought of the Bootcamp. I hope we'll be able to see the demo online at some point.

Anyway, this ended up being quite an interesting thread, even if I do say so myself :Drogar-Evil(DBG):
 
Very interesting thread, I just checked out that Canon footage you linked to Disjecta and it looks amazing. Whats the big problem with the Canon, it seems like its often left out of these discussions. Is 24f really that bad(I haven't personally noticed it looking funny)? or is it the fact that the tapes aren't compatable with any decks. Some of my favorite footage has been from the canon.

The HVX looks like a great camera too but personally I'm worried about the relatively short amount of footage I would be able to shoot at one time.

Its good seeing somone really respected on this board challenege panasonic a little, its made for a good discussion.
 
Nobody356 said:
Whats the big problem with the Canon
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Personally, I have downright hated the ergonomics and user interface of that camera since the original XL. I have no love for the stock Canon Lenses. And I have seen more reliability issues regarding Canon video cameras then other models.

So, I never had any interest in the XL2, I have teched and AC'ed them before. And I have no interest in the newer H1.

I have never even set foot in their forum, nor do I plan to.
 
The Sarlacc said:
Personally, I have downright hated the ergonomics and user interface of that camera since the original XL. I have no love for the stock Canon Lenses. And I have seen more reliability issues regarding Canon video cameras then other models.
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That's kinda how I felt. After trying the Canon for about a minute I decided it wasn't for me. Evil servo lens!:kali:
 
David S. said:
This is where we see a huge improvement.

BTW, what are you using to encode and author with?
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FCP and DVDSP, I come from the PC world so my real interest is in DVDSP, very nice. Finally a DVD app that does not look like romper room. The encode times on my laptop are horrible but I plan to wait until Apple delivers some decent iron.
 
Well, here is my 2 cents:

I'm in a similar situation as I've narrowed it down between the HD100 and the HVX200. I think that Panasonic has always known most about what looks the most film-like or simply what is most pleasing to my eye but I really would like some extra resolution. I haven't gotten either yet but several things have happened recently to pretty much sell me on the HVX200:

1. Barry's Comparison Footage between the two cameras simply blew me away. First of all, it showed that most of what made the JVC appear more detailed was do to the artificial edge enhancment (which can be done in post if neccesary). The footage he shot ended up looking just as sharp on the HVX200 as the HD100. Then there were the colors which looked far nicer on the HVX200.

2. Recently a friend of mine was working on a documentary with an DVX100A. He went ahead and had another friend accompany him for one part for a multicamera interview with the HD100 (in SD). When we got the footage into the computer, the results were startling. Simply put, in SD, the DVX100 made a much better looking image. The colors looked far more rich and vibrant and the gamma curve seemed far more film-ish. This isn't something that one can really quantify in any way shape or form. It's just that panasonic appears to know the color and the light of film far better than anyone else.

3. I worked on another shoot where a firestore was being used. Just like the DVX100, the HD100 requires one to always have a tape when using firestore (just a ***** and means that if the deck breaks the camera still won't work anymore). More frustrating was the fact that the firestore is glitchy. There were drop frames everywhere and other minor artifacting issues. These cameras weren't made to use it. Thus, it looks like the HVX200 is the only one that REALLY offers tapeless work and that's a HUGE plus more me. Imagine never having to buy tapes. Imagine not having to get a seperate deck or worrying about the camera deck breaking down or getting dirty. Imagine never having to digitize and possibly losing quality in that aspect. Image being able to view the scenes instantly with no rewinding. When I got my first mini-DV camera at 17, I couldn't understand why we were still recording to tape when it was supposedly digital. I'm glad things have finally changed.

These things really opened my eyes. Other reasons that really make me want to go with the HVX200 are:

4.-Variable frame rates. I won't over-use them but they'll be a great tool.

5.-4:2:2 MXF recording. I can't stress how important this is. Stills don't do justice to have much can be lost with the JVC's compression, especially in motion.

6.-Native 24p. Saves on space by only recording the frames you need.

7.-It'll be a breeze to pick up. This may be the most important. What most people have said who have shot with the XLH1, HVX200, and HD100, is that they all perform pretty similarly. They have differences but what seems to matter most is what you can get out of them. I've worked with the DVX100a for the last few years. I know how to make it give me the image I want. That alone will make the HVX200 much easier to work with.
 
disjecta said:
Shoot! I looked at some more Canon H1 samples again and I can't help salivating over the resolution.

If you go to PappasArts site and take a look at the file called Magic Hour.m2t, you'll see what I mean. The palm trees on the horizon are razor sharp, it's just beautiful.

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/...1 HI-DEF FOOTAGE&templatefn=FileSharing1.html

Sorry Michael, hope I'm not clogging up your bandwidth.

I know this is not the place but how is anyone dealing with 24fps on the Canon? Are they editing on an HDV timeline? What NLE supports it?
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I edit my H1 footage in FCP in PhotoJPEG and DVCPROHD. I consider HDV acquisition only because both the JVC and Canon convert to Intra-frame codecs amazingly well...and that's from "hyper-compressed" HDV. I also occasionally shoot SDI straight to said codecs, bypassing HDV and it certainly avoids any possibility of macroblocking, but the quality is surprisingly not that much different than the HDV. Canon's 24F is temporally correct, particularly when you extract the progressive frames from the 1080i wrapper. It has the same temporal cadence as the others, you just have to extract the frames. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but 24F is a true progessive encoding of the 24fps 1080 material. So, it looks slightly better than the 1080i because progressive encoding is more efficient in MPEG2 and the frames recorded to tape get more bits.

The H1 is more workable in post than you probably think. It's not perfect, but if resolution is a really important thing to you...it's hard to beat. There are portable SDI solutions coming in the near future that will allow you to record the best quality the camera can output with true 4.2.2 color, while at the same time recording HDV for safety.

btw, almost every clip Michael shot and posted from the H1 is from the "SD" Canon 16x manual lens. Holds up pretty well at 1080 res, IMHO.

Just chiming in to give you a perspective on the H1. I'm sure the JVC will be a happy experience for you, but I think the lens choices with the JVC will actually be more expensive overall if you're going to work with anything other than the stock Fujinon.

Good luck. It'll be tough to wrong whichever way you go.
 
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