GH2 No 25p possible in GH2 hack

mimirsan said:
if nikon or sony release a camera with manual controls with ALL standard framerates...im gone. ive very nearly had it with m4/3 and their piss poor current lineup.
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I'm keeping a close eye on the expected Nex 7

Hopefully Sony will include the faetures that were lacking on the Nex 5 (and wrap them in a bigger body) - which, combined with their APSC sesnor, would be a very attractive proposition.

For me, the killer feature would be in-body IS. Imagine having stabilisation for all that legacy glass......I've got a Canon 300mm f/4 that's crying out for just such a feature.

Who knows?, it might even use the new AVCHC standard - plus (in my own expeience) Sony is a *much* nicer company to deal with than Arrogantsonic.
 
JimNastics said:
Can you record in 720/50p, then ask your NLE to drop every other frame so it's 720/25p?
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Using Grunf's response as a basis: "No. GH2 captures true 50i signal. It's NOT 25p wrapped into 50i container as GH1. Thus, you get either half of vertical resolution or combing when you try to make 25p of it.

(If GH2 really captured 25p in 50i wrapper we wouldn't have this discussion. Higher bitrate would be all we needed...)"


I doubt you can, but who knows.
 
Framerate said:
Hi - first - thanks for the time & effort you put into this patch.

I installed it in my (previously hackable) GH1 and was initially very pleased with the results.

Testing indoors, there was a noticeable improvement over my previous 'standard' 32Mbit settings, even though the average bit rate was only around 25Mbit.

Testing hand-held outdoors, the bit rate averaged about 35Mbit, with no lock-up or other probs. I was feeling very pleased with myself - until I tried a static foliage test.

The camera reported the usual memory card speed error after about 2 minutes - I tried again, this time lowering the exposure values.

Still no joy - in fact, the camera now began to report the 'unable to write' error after the first few seconds. I don't know what the bit rates were because, obviously, the files were not saved.

OK, I assumed I required something better than my Transcend class 10 - but, just to check again, I installed the 'standard' 50Mbit Ptool settings (but left 25p unchecked)

Using the same fol;age test, the camera ran for 15 minutes without a hitch, until I turned it off.

The average bit rate from this test was 40Mbit - so, obviously, the card is easily capable of that sustained speed.

So, presumably, this means that a faster card isn't necessarily going to solve my 'Max Latitude' problem? I'm loathe to spend the best part of $100 (equivalent) on something that might not be necessary.

It seems clear that the problems occur when 25p is invoked. I realise that I don't know the bit rate from the static 'Max Latitude' test - but I doubt if they were significantly higher than the hand-held test, or the static 'non 25p' test.

I'd really like to persevere with this patch because the dynamic range was certainly improved - but, frankly, I don't know where to go from here.


Cheers
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Hi Framerate - install the 100Mbps patch, then re-format your card. Worked for me (transcend 16gb class 10)
 
Skeptikal said:
25p has always been unstable on the GH13 when using wide angle lenses...even at so-called reliable bit-rates. I've always been happy using 1080 50i @ 35-50mbps. It's labeled "50i" but it's actually 50i progressive segmented...so Edius simply handles it as if it's 25p (Pal users don't have funky pulldown issues)...absolutely no extra work required.

My brand new GH2 just had the hack today and is now shooting 30-40mbps 50i PsF. Actually best of both worlds...50i ready for Blu-ray or 25p ready for Pal broadcast. The bottom line is that the image IS being captured in 25p...so what's with all the grief? It really was only an issue with the factory castrated Pal GH2 shooting 50i @ some stupidly low bit-rate.

By the way...the image quality out of the hacked Gh2 is stunning...
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Hi Skeptical,
just to clarify - with the new GH2 hack, you're able to get 1080/50i psf using the new higher bitrates?

thanks
 
Skeptikal said:
.

My brand new GH2 just had the hack today and is now shooting 30-40mbps 50i PsF. Actually best of both worlds...50i ready for Blu-ray or 25p ready for Pal broadcast. The bottom line is that the image IS being captured in 25p...so what's with all the grief? It really was only an issue with the factory castrated Pal GH2 shooting 50i @ some stupidly low bit-rate.

.
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25P in 50i? I don't think there's PsF.
Of course we can deinterlace 50i to 25P, but it isn't the real thing. Quality will be compromise, no?
 
Mj882 said:
Using Grunf's response as a basis: "No. GH2 captures true 50i signal. It's NOT 25p wrapped into 50i container as GH1. Thus, you get either half of vertical resolution or combing when you try to make 25p of it.

(If GH2 really captured 25p in 50i wrapper we wouldn't have this discussion. Higher bitrate would be all we needed...)"


I doubt you can, but who knows.
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No I mean 50p, not 50i... GH2 can record in 720/50p. Surely then you can just drop every other frame for 25p?
 
I just got my GH2 today...and from some of my previous readings assumed that like the GH13 it also did 50i as a PsF. I never imagined that Panasonic would actually NOT implement 50i as a PsF. After a bit more messing around with it sadly looks like the 50i (thought good @ 45 mbps) is of the old fashioned type...not PsF after all. Amazing...

But for what it's worth 24p seems to be quite stable in my limited testing so far even at respectable bit-rates. Now I really want 25p...
 
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To clear things up:

GH2 720p50 is THE REAL 720 progressive. You can drop every other frame and get real 720p25. It works nicely. With patched B-frames it's really good indeed.

GH2 1080i50 is THE REAL 1080 interlaced. It captures 50 HALF FRAMES in combed manner. Temporal resolution is 50 FPS. If you drop every other frame you get 1080p25 with half vertical resolution. If you de-interlace it you get the usual problems.

GH1 1080i50 is 1080p25 stored in 1080i50 container. It captures 25 FULL FRAMES and just saves it in interlaced manner. Temporal resolution is still 25FPS. Making it into 1080p25 is trivial.

We are trying to force GH2 to capture REAL 1080p25. The key is in encoder settings. So let go short GOP and "raise 20 to 34" things and start experimenting with AVCHD Research -> Encoder Settings xx in order to come somewhere ;)
 
Skeptikal said:
I just got my GH2 today...and from some of my previous readings assumed that like the GH13 it also did 50i as a PsF. I never imagined that Panasonic would actually NOT implement 50i as a PsF. After a bit more messing around with it sadly looks like the 50i (thought good @ 45 mbps) is of the old fashioned type...not PsF after all. Amazing...
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'Old fashioned type' meaning interlaced and not psf? Sorry to seem so dense, but 50i psf would work for me, whereas 50i would not.

thanks
 
mr bill said:
'Old fashioned type' meaning interlaced and not psf? Sorry to seem so dense, but 50i psf would work for me, whereas 50i would not.

thanks
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Sadly...the 50i in the hacked GH2 is NOT PsF as Grunf correctly pointed out. I'm curious as to why Panasonic chose to do it this way when PsF works so well in the GH1.
 
Grunf said:
To clear things up:

GH2 720p50 is THE REAL 720 progressive. You can drop every other frame and get real 720p25. It works nicely. With patched B-frames it's really good indeed.

GH2 1080i50 is THE REAL 1080 interlaced. It captures 50 HALF FRAMES in combed manner. Temporal resolution is 50 FPS. If you drop every other frame you get 1080p25 with half vertical resolution. If you de-interlace it you get the usual problems.

GH1 1080i50 is 1080p25 stored in 1080i50 container. It captures 25 FULL FRAMES and just saves it in interlaced manner. Temporal resolution is still 25FPS. Making it into 1080p25 is trivial.

We are trying to force GH2 to capture REAL 1080p25. The key is in encoder settings. So let go short GOP and "raise 20 to 34" things and start experimenting with AVCHD Research -> Encoder Settings xx in order to come somewhere ;)
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Words of inspiration Grunf! Please reignite the hope and hopefully other testers will help you with this.

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/391/25p-official-topic-aka-dont-cry-for-me-argentina ......Might be a good place to reignite the journey to 25p!
 
mr bill said:
Hi Framerate - install the 100Mbps patch, then re-format your card. Worked for me (transcend 16gb class 10)
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Hi Bill - I already tried formatting the card in camera after the install, no joy I'm afraid.

I assume that you are using the Max Latitude patch? - does it fail if subjected to the foliage test?
 
Framerate said:
I'm keeping a close eye on the expected Nex 7

Hopefully Sony will include the faetures that were lacking on the Nex 5 (and wrap them in a bigger body) - which, combined with their APSC sesnor, would be a very attractive proposition.

For me, the killer feature would be in-body IS. Imagine having stabilisation for all that legacy glass......I've got a Canon 300mm f/4 that's crying out for just such a feature.

Who knows?, it might even use the new AVCHC standard - plus (in my own expeience) Sony is a *much* nicer company to deal with than Arrogantsonic.
Click to expand...

Im also waiting on the NEX7..hope they deliver!
 
I will ask this question again as no has answered it.....

As the sensor has a 50 fps mode is progressive 1920x1080 @50 frames per second with a decent bit rate (40+ mb/s) a possibility?

This will solve all the issues of not having 25P.....you can easily drop every second frame in a 25P timeline and also have 50% slow motion capability....

Can this be done?
 
Framerate said:
Hi Bill - I already tried formatting the card in camera after the install, no joy I'm afraid.

I assume that you are using the Max Latitude patch? - does it fail if subjected to the foliage test?[/QUOTE

I have no idea - I've been using it for shooting a mixture of stuff - some architecture, some interviews. Seems to be working great, but I always carry the other patches around with me just in case. I'm feeling very confident in it, but did upgrade my memory cards to sandisk 30's
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sean90291 said:
Why is 25P such a deal-breaker for you? Every DVD player can handle both frame rates, so just shoot 24P. Online exhibition doesn't care whether it's 24P or 25P. I live in a PAL country and shoot 24P all the time. Unless you're shooting for broadcast in a PAL country...in which case I'm not sure why you'd shoot with a hacked camera anyhow. So I don't get why you can't just use 24P. I'm sure some of you can tell me, since you seem so crushed by the news.
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I shoot with muti camera s that can't record 24p. For this reason I opted for the gh13 instead of the gh2
 
Spectra said:
I will ask this question again as no has answered it.....

As the sensor has a 50 fps mode is progressive 1920x1080 @50 frames per second with a decent bit rate (40+ mb/s) a possibility?

This will solve all the issues of not having 25P.....you can easily drop every second frame in a 25P timeline and also have 50% slow motion capability....

Can this be done?
Click to expand...

perhaps - for the time not yet
 
Grunf said:
To clear things up:

GH2 720p50 is THE REAL 720 progressive. You can drop every other frame and get real 720p25. It works nicely. With patched B-frames it's really good indeed.

GH2 1080i50 is THE REAL 1080 interlaced. It captures 50 HALF FRAMES in combed manner. Temporal resolution is 50 FPS. If you drop every other frame you get 1080p25 with half vertical resolution. If you de-interlace it you get the usual problems.

GH1 1080i50 is 1080p25 stored in 1080i50 container. It captures 25 FULL FRAMES and just saves it in interlaced manner. Temporal resolution is still 25FPS. Making it into 1080p25 is trivial.

We are trying to force GH2 to capture REAL 1080p25. The key is in encoder settings. So let go short GOP and "raise 20 to 34" things and start experimenting with AVCHD Research -> Encoder Settings xx in order to come somewhere ;)
Click to expand...

Right, so for those of us happy with 720/25p rather than 1080/25p, the GH2 will be fine... you just drop every other frame from 720/50p. Annoying that there is no 720/25p straight out, but it's easy to get round. The problem is 1080/25p, which is currently not possible, as you can't hack 1080i50 like you could with the GH1.
 
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