interesting rumor going on out there...
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/12/rumours-claim-nikon-bought-samsung-nx-technology/
david
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/12/rumours-claim-nikon-bought-samsung-nx-technology/
david
Nikon to buy Samsung NX1 sensor technology?
- Thread starter david_p
- Start date
DPStewart
Veteran
That would be great - then maybe the Nikon IQ would stop sucking monkey balls.
I have several Nikon AF lenses that would be so nice to throw on an "affordable" Nikon body, but every time I try them I run screaming back to my Canon's for stills.
It's been really frustrating and very disappointing.
I have several Nikon AF lenses that would be so nice to throw on an "affordable" Nikon body, but every time I try them I run screaming back to my Canon's for stills.
It's been really frustrating and very disappointing.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
DPStewart
Veteran
Oh, to be sure the D800, D810, and the D750 are a different story. Those 3 are monsters (barring all the Q.C. failures and re-calls of the D750).
But those bodies are not what I'm calling "affordable" just to be able to have auto-focus from a few lenses.
While I find that the lesser priced Canons - like a 60D or 70D, 7D mkI, or even my old T2i put out gorgeous results compared to the cheaper Nikons...which just don't.
homestar_kevin
Well-known member
I really like the images and video out of my d7100 still.
The stills are great with my Nikon autofocus lenses (tokina 11-16, 28-70 2.6-2.8, nikon 80-200 ED 2.8)
That said, I really like the stills from my nx1 too, so I'm very excited about the potential in this deal.
The stills are great with my Nikon autofocus lenses (tokina 11-16, 28-70 2.6-2.8, nikon 80-200 ED 2.8)
That said, I really like the stills from my nx1 too, so I'm very excited about the potential in this deal.
By the way, Samsung publicly denied that Nikon is "buying the NX technology from them".
From which I infer that the sensor (for D5, to begin with) will be custom designed, with Nikon essentially picking the specs for it. A full frame is ~ 2.2 the square area of APS-C, so a NX-1 copy doubled would be ~ 62 MPX. Since D5 is presumably more geared toward video, Nikon could conceivably want a much smaller pixel count. A 26.4 MPX will give them a 444 RGB 4K, which is something no other modern camera has. Allowing for multiple aspects (4:3, 16:9, 2.4), the video optimized sensor might have 35-40 MPX and still deliver super stills resolution while having an excellent low light performance. Should they settle on the 17.6 MPX 4:2:2 (enough for F65 and Alexa, each selling for in excess of $60,000 body only), they could even come under 28 MPX of Samsung's own NX1 and in line with the expected 24 MPX of 1D X MKII. But, once again, with larger pixels, they will have a phenomenal low light performance similar to A7S/II (and exceeding C300 MKII). And do it all for around $7,000.
From which I infer that the sensor (for D5, to begin with) will be custom designed, with Nikon essentially picking the specs for it. A full frame is ~ 2.2 the square area of APS-C, so a NX-1 copy doubled would be ~ 62 MPX. Since D5 is presumably more geared toward video, Nikon could conceivably want a much smaller pixel count. A 26.4 MPX will give them a 444 RGB 4K, which is something no other modern camera has. Allowing for multiple aspects (4:3, 16:9, 2.4), the video optimized sensor might have 35-40 MPX and still deliver super stills resolution while having an excellent low light performance. Should they settle on the 17.6 MPX 4:2:2 (enough for F65 and Alexa, each selling for in excess of $60,000 body only), they could even come under 28 MPX of Samsung's own NX1 and in line with the expected 24 MPX of 1D X MKII. But, once again, with larger pixels, they will have a phenomenal low light performance similar to A7S/II (and exceeding C300 MKII). And do it all for around $7,000.
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Michael Carter
Veteran
For some reason, I find the idea that Nikon would be considering 444 video very unlikely…or putting out a $7k video camera...
The rumor really is a "makes a lot of sense" thing, but even though the NX1 was years ahead of current Canon & Nikon DSLRs in many ways, it didn't succeed and the big guys heaved a sigh of relief and will likely decide that complacency paid off.
Nikon hasn't been able to update because they had to buy sensors from the third party and that third party (Sony) demanded certain concessions in exchange for selling their most modern technology.
As to why Nikon might do it, they ain't got nothing else. Unless it handily beats 1D X MKII (and a possible A99II) on specs, people will simply ignore it. NX1 was easier to ignore because not many wanted to get into the NX ecosystem. Plus, it's a major reason to partner up with Samsung. As it is, Nikon's sales and profit are plummeting downward. If they don't come up with a signature line, they might as well close the shop as well.
As to why Nikon might do it, they ain't got nothing else. Unless it handily beats 1D X MKII (and a possible A99II) on specs, people will simply ignore it. NX1 was easier to ignore because not many wanted to get into the NX ecosystem. Plus, it's a major reason to partner up with Samsung. As it is, Nikon's sales and profit are plummeting downward. If they don't come up with a signature line, they might as well close the shop as well.
First D5 photos appeared. First spec teasers too. This should have Samsung's tech inside, shouldn't it?
http://nikonrumors.com/2015/12/12/first-pictures-of-the-nikon-d5-dslr-camera.aspx/#more-100013
http://nikonrumors.com/2015/12/12/first-pictures-of-the-nikon-d5-dslr-camera.aspx/#more-100013
DPStewart
Veteran
Well...looks like their new D5 is going to be almost exactly that.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
That would depend on the type of the debayering process inside. So, it probably won't but it might.
Also, there's no current info on the codec or the ability to get Raw out and one kind of/sort of needs both. CFast 2.0 cards technically allow for the internal Raw recording, presumably in a compressed form.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
If you ask me, there's no information on anything right now, regarding the D5. Just a bunch of wish lists that got published in rumor sites. Even the Samsung thing is not completely solid: if Nikon using Samsung tech is a new thing that started with the NX1 not being as successful as Samsung expected, then it's way too early for a Nikon high-end camera to be using that tech. Of course, the agreement may have happened three years ago, before the NX1 was even released. But still, I see more wish than info in many of the rumors.
Ya, it sort of feels that way with D5, which is why I wrote on the Industry Forum that I had a hunch about another camera - a high megapixel full frame mirrorless - that may have a lot more Samsung derived components than D5. If a three year development cycle sounds feasible, then D5 may be a smorgasbord of the various OEM's, Samsung being just one of them. On the surface, the specs aren't overwhelming and the camera success will depend on the codec and the connectivity ... which have not been even remotely mentioned. An 8-bit H264 would make it closer to the Sony A7 S/R lineup; a 10-bit H265 could take it a step or two higher.
BTW, the commenters on Nikon Rumors think, off those photos, that the slot tabs are too short for the CF and D5 is still using the legacy QXD cards from their D4 lineup.
Michael Carter
Veteran
Keep in mind that Samsung likely failed due to brand recognition, not the technology. If the D7200 had the same specs as the NX1, would I have bought one? Most completely definitely (but what we got was an 'are you kidding me' almost firmware-level update). The camera press would have gone into shock and it would have been "camera of the year" all over the place. Enthusiasts and lower-level pros would have grabbed it up like crazy. I think that's the closest comparison one could make as far as release dates of the 2 cameras, price points and spec differences.
Samsung failed - I assume anyway - for several factors. The falloff of interchangeable lens camera sales, and the market position for a $1400, not-full-frame camera. As important as we video customers assume our dollars are, it's enthusiasts and lower level commercial shooters that buy in that range. And I think to both of those markets, brand and ecosystem are very big factors.
I'm a little amazed that Samsung threw in the towel so soon though. It wasn't just camera R&D and tooling, it was a big investment in pro lens design and manufacture - those S lenses are pretty hellacious optics for the money and really made the NX1 a next-gen system. I guess with six billion - six billion dollars - in cash, they can afford to toss a division. Maybe another company would have needed more ROI and stuck it out.
I just purchased an NX1 last week and will be shooting a variety of projects with it across the next 3 - 4 weeks - events, corporate interviews, b-roll and likely a narrative-style spot. So far I'm crazy impressed - with a real overtone of disappointment. If this was their first shot (and also their demonstration of support commitment with fast and serious firmware upgrades), what would the NX2 be like? It's a big loss to the industry, and Nikon and Canon are likely heaving huge sighs of relief about playing catch-up. Success for Samsung would have mean better cameras from the other big players, I'm pretty certain of that.
But yes, even if Nikon has some involvement with Samsung - possibly turning to them as a chip supplier - we won't see a product for quite some time.
A poster on one of those sites - DP Review, IIRC - wrote when the rumors of the Nikon-Samsung partnership first appeared that Samsung has been testing a full frame sensor in Germany (no camera per se, just connected to the electronic boards) since last summer. In terms of the development, I'd also assume that Nikon has been auditioning various third party suppliers for a while.
On Nikon Rumors, someone opined that the published photos of D5 has a Sigma lens on it, which likely meant that the photo came from an early tester rather than a Nikon factory or a corporate office. In other words, D5's are already out there.
PS. Sensors aside, Samsung 14 nM FinFET processors and memory modules can be just as important.
I keep on wanting to make a post about how ridiculous a D5 with Samsung tech would be, and then have to admit that it could make a huge amount of sense.
One of the things that Nikon is highly aware the D5 should be able to deliver -- more robust video capabilities (a huge asset for photojournalists and action shooters, high-end wedding guys...the primary intended market). 4k 60p could be more achievable in a large DLSR body, with the aid of Samsung SoCs + their h.265 video tech....
The D5 will be Nikon's flagship product. Nikon owns the sensor patents on the D4, I think that is highly likely to be the case for the D5. If somehow Samsung is making the D5 sensor, they would produce the sensor to Nikon's spec -- with the option for Nikon to source chips elsewhere. Maybe it will be the first Nikon to have peaking, zebras. 60p internal 4k 8bit 4.2.0 sounds reeeallly optimistic coming from Nikon, maybe 4k 30p 10bit 4.2.2 external as a way out long shot....wouldn't bet on any of it! If these rumors are true, likely too recent to have affected the D5.
People have noted from the rumor pictures, the VF appears to be swappable, could be OVF/EVF...would accommodate video shooters as much as stills. Hope Nikon is bold! Sony is deadset on wiping out Canikon, that much is clear. A D5 that ISN'T a minor upgrade would be a great sign they aren't asleep
One of the things that Nikon is highly aware the D5 should be able to deliver -- more robust video capabilities (a huge asset for photojournalists and action shooters, high-end wedding guys...the primary intended market). 4k 60p could be more achievable in a large DLSR body, with the aid of Samsung SoCs + their h.265 video tech....
The D5 will be Nikon's flagship product. Nikon owns the sensor patents on the D4, I think that is highly likely to be the case for the D5. If somehow Samsung is making the D5 sensor, they would produce the sensor to Nikon's spec -- with the option for Nikon to source chips elsewhere. Maybe it will be the first Nikon to have peaking, zebras. 60p internal 4k 8bit 4.2.0 sounds reeeallly optimistic coming from Nikon, maybe 4k 30p 10bit 4.2.2 external as a way out long shot....wouldn't bet on any of it! If these rumors are true, likely too recent to have affected the D5.
People have noted from the rumor pictures, the VF appears to be swappable, could be OVF/EVF...would accommodate video shooters as much as stills. Hope Nikon is bold! Sony is deadset on wiping out Canikon, that much is clear. A D5 that ISN'T a minor upgrade would be a great sign they aren't asleep
Michael Carter
Veteran
It's been pretty nuts, shooting my first few gigs with the NX1. It's a major evolution from anything out there DSLR wise or sub $2k. The oled screen, the peaking, the 4k image - the color has been great so far and the camera is pretty customizable. Really really digging it. I keep thinking of the D7200 release - it's all the stuff we were wishing Nikon would do.