FS7: New Sony PXW-FX9 with venice features and 6k full frame

JCummings said:
I've never understood why Sony (and the other Japanese mfr's) still steadfastly refuse to do this. Are they afraid of gutting their small-sensor ENG lines, which are slowly becoming niche cameras?

Arri got it mostly right with the Amira, although it's not affordable for many of us freelancers. Plus it's a little too hefty.

Take the guts from the FX9, put them in an ENG body. Price it fairly. Boom. Sell 'em by the truckload...
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Amen, brother.
 
Doug I appreciate broadcast cameras but find them too heavy.

Also I don’t do broadcast.

My need are usually satisfying a team to which good inbuilt wireless monitor consistent luts and the like would help.

But the rethink I was really referring to was the management of auto focus when ones eyes are inside a viewfinder.

With a canon one can tap the screen - but not if you can’t see where your finger is because your are inside an Evf.

Ultimately we need to tell the camera where to go next and how fast - a complex gui challenge:)

Also the beta cam with a tape deck had a kind of shape defined - it happened to work but one can now think beyond that.

And eng cams are rubbish on gimbals :)
 
When I owned the F800 and PW500 with great Fujinon lens, I did not miss many shots. And for my work fast moving, and on my feet all day they were great. I loved the weight which was very close to my kitted out FS7 MK2. My PMW-500 is still to this day the best camera I have owned in 40 years. Oh well, history always repeats.

Happy Thanksgiving to all.
 
Newsguy said:
I’d pay Sony to give us the option of the broadcast evf on the FS7 and 9. That alone would make a difference. Stronger point of contact, much shorter eyepiece to be able to push the camera back on the shoulder, much brighter/sharper.
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I would be happy with that. No proper VF options announced so far as I know. WTH, Sony.

Guys that came up with DSLR's no nothing about good ergonomics. It's not all about weight.

I know...OK Boomer.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Yeah, we know that you don't understand the beauty of the traditional ENG design even though it solves a lot of the gripes you bring up in other threads. Once again, here's just a FEW of the physical benefits of a Z450/Z750 style camera that go beyond the obvious advantages of balance, comfort, etc.

Four VU meters always visible on the side of the camera.
External headphone volume control
Nearly all audio controls clustered in one area.
Timecode always visible
Native VCT tripod mount with built-in shoulder pad
Native v-lock batteries
Better viewfinder and stronger viewfinder mount
5-pin XLR connector up front for stereo shotgun -- leaving the rear XLR connectors free.
Slot for two-channel digital audio receiver that becomes a seamless part of the camera.
D-tap out
Better shotgun mount
External shutter speed switch (i change my speed all the time for S&Q)
Record button under the lens.
External black balance switch.
Better menu controls
4-pin XLR power input
etc.

I'm sure if I could think of more things if I gave it a few more minutes.
Modern cameras don't need a re-think, they just need to revisit what was already done right years ago. No need to reinvent the wheel. We just need a FF ENG camera (or even S35) with an e-mount and variable ND -- and that would be just about perfect.
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Looks like Panasonic has taken a small step in this direction with their new single sensor AJ-CX4000.
https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-v...amcorders/aj-cx4000-4k-hdr-eng-shoulder-mount

Years ago I was shooting with a JVC shoulder mount camera. The ENG form factor made shooting a lot easier.
 
nutmegger said:
Looks like Panasonic has taken a small step in this direction with their new single sensor AJ-CX4000.
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Sony already has that camera beat with the PXW-Z450 and PXW-Z750.

What many of us are wanting is a S35 or FF sensor camera in an ENG camera form with all the XDCAM bells and whistles. I think Blackmagic may have something looks right, but I'm sure it doesn't have all the features of an XDCAM, so I'm not really interested.
 
What are the features of an xdcam?

Baffling menues, slow boot times, terrible playback and over compressed codecs?

I’m working with a BM “pocket” at the moment and playback is so intuitive as are all the other settings - I have hit the Sq button by a mistake though.

Playback on the fs7 is an embarrassment
 
Doug
My sharp response was lead by your apparent dismissal of the BM without apparent logic or personal experience

I’ve shot a feature and a 45min tv pilot on BM cameras - I’m currently shooting a little project where the pocket is B cam.
I own a Micro.

I know the strengths and weaknesses and would not want one as my primary camera - but be well aware that many aspects eat Sony for usability and quality. Particularly the ability to show a director your last shots

Particularly codecs playback and menu. That eng shape BM is better than the 7 and beaten by the 9 only because the 9 has AF.
 
morgan_moore said:
Doug
My sharp response was lead by your apparent dismissal of the BM without apparent logic or personal experience

I’ve shot a feature and a 45min tv pilot on BM cameras - I’m currently shooting a little project where the pocket is B cam.
I own a Micro.

I know the strengths and weaknesses and would not want one as my primary camera - but be well aware that many aspects eat Sony for usability and quality. Particularly the ability to show a director your last shots

Particularly codecs playback and menu. That eng shape BM is better than the 7 and beaten by the 9 only because the 9 has AF.
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But how is it for battery and hand held..EVF ? wireless monitor set up . I would never have play back ability as one of the main factors that I would judge a camera by personally .. sorry another Boomer :)
 
Donny 123 said:
But how is it for battery and hand held..EVF ? wireless monitor set up . I would never have play back ability as one of the main factors that I would judge a camera by personally .. sorry another Boomer :)
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Quite right.
Sam and I could never agree on the best camera because our expectations and needs are so far apart. He regularly brings up playback, AF, and weight as being very important. Three things that are right at the bottom of my list of priorities. In 35+ years in this business I can count the number of times on one hand that a client wanted to see playback. It's just not done in any of the circles I have worked in. I wonder why frequent playback would be necessary? And why is setting up a one-touch last clip playback not fast enough? What is better than that on the BM cameras?
 
Doug Jensen said:
In 35+ years in this business I can count the number of times on one hand that a client wanted to see playback. It's just not done in any of the circles I have worked in. I wonder why frequent playback would be necessary? And why is setting up a one-touch last clip playback not fast enough? What is better than that on the BM cameras?
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My first job, after tea-boy, on a film set was Playback Operator. It's not a feature you need in the ENG or doco world but commercial clients expect a good playback set-up. Of course, on larger sets, it's handled by Video Village via a wireless link. Also, on larger sets, you wouldn't be using a BM pocket, so I'm not really helping LOL.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Quite right.
Sam and I could never agree on the best camera because our expectations and needs are so far apart. He regularly brings up playback, AF, and weight as being very important. Three things that are right at the bottom of my list of priorities. In 35+ years in this business I can count the number of times on one hand that a client wanted to see playback. It's just not done in any of the circles I have worked in. I wonder why frequent playback would be necessary? And why is setting up a one-touch last clip playback not fast enough? What is better than that on the BM cameras?
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Im shooting mostly corporate stuff now ,and small crew "commercials " with a very small C.. for company websites and screens in shops, and there back of airplane seats !.. being asked for playback is very seldom .. its usually just to check "actors" continuity, as we have forgotten where they where standing , or I want to show the director some great shot ,in my eyes anyway, to impress them..slo mo is good for easily impressing clients .. :) they have wirless monitors (what a great invention ) but playing back all day would be a total pain..and at some stage I would refuse ..
 
Donny 123 said:
Im shooting mostly corporate stuff now ,and small crew "commercials " with a very small C.. for company websites and screens in shops, and there back of airplane seats !.. being asked for playback is very seldom .. its usually just to check "actors" continuity, as we have forgotten where they where standing , or I want to show the director some great shot ,in my eyes anyway, to impress them..slo mo is good for easily impressing clients .. :) they have wirless monitors (what a great invention ) but playing back all day would be a total pain..and at some stage I would refuse ..
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Yes, all shoots are different... but I certainly wouldn't characterize corporate work as not needing playback. I haven't been asked for playback since... well I guess it was last week. And after doing two takes the CEO (and PR person) wanted to see not the last take but the first one - since they didn't like the second one and wanted to make sure the first was ok. (and like many CEO's, they were ready to be finished before they walked in the room...)

But seriously... when a client says "can we look at an answer from the middle of this morning's interview?" do you really want to be the one rolling their eyes and saying it's a major pain and it's going to take forever to cue up? or do you want to be the one who can get to it quickly and efficiently? I know that I may not need to do playback on every shoot, but providing it quickly on demand is just good client service. (it's also one of the reasons I make sure there's excellent audio coming into the camera even if the sound person is recording the 'master audio' on his mixer/recorder - since listening to camera mic scratch tracks is not an acceptable option -- and that my client monitor has decent speakers.) Sure it's only needed on 10% - 20% of my shoots -- but I'd never downplay the need for convenient playback.
 
morgan_moore said:
Doug
My sharp response was lead by your apparent dismissal of the BM without apparent logic or personal experience
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You're right, so I took a quick look at the manual for the Ursa. Please correct me if I have gotten anything wrong, which is entirely possible.
Some random thoughts.

ProRes for the codec? For acquisition in 2019?
Only two channels of audio
Only 1 SDI
No method of customizing info shown the VF.
No methods of setting up custom clip naming.
No paint menus at all for WYSIWYG shooting.
No Scene Files
Not sure about All Files.
No timecode in/out
VF seems to me an extra accessory that must be purchased.
Zebras may not offer necessary customization (not sure)
Not sure if it has markers or if they would be customizable.
No User Box
No User Menu
Shutter speed mode is available in angles only?
Sensitivity mode is available in ISO only?
I don't see any assignable buttons?
No way to display the clip file name in the VF
No White Balance Set button
Can only choose a WB preset
No WB memory switch
No shockless WB
No GPS
No streaming or wireless capabilities
No HDMI ??
No menus for customizing AF performance
No Variable ND
No d-tap or other power output.
Relay recording?
No external WB or Gain toggle switches.
Not sure about external audio controls, does it have any?
Touch screen interface?? Yuck!

That's just what I noticed in the first few minutes. I'm sure a deeper dive would reveal more missing functionality. And to make matters worse, I don't see anything the camera offers that I could say "hyy, I wish my Sony had that!".
I may have gotten a few things wrong, but overall, this camera looks like a glorified DSLR and sems to be to be aimed at that type of shooter.
This is not a competitor to Sony's pro cinema or ENG cameras.
Just my opinion.
 
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OnSet said:
I know that I may not need to do playback on every shoot, but providing it quickly on demand is just good client service. k.
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So, when playback is necessary, what is the problem with the Sony interface and what makes other cameras (which ones?) better at this task when it is needed? Sam was saying the Sony's are lacking in some way for playback, which is what brought this topic up. You can either use the assign button for one-touch playback of the last clip or dive into the thumbnails and select the one you want. What is the big deal? What specifically is the problem?
 
I've seen some absolutely amazing footage from the Ursa Mini Pros. They seem like a great value but the horror stories about build quality, reliability and service issues have kept me away.
Also many of my clients have probably never heard of the brand so it would be a tough sell on many jobs.
 
OnSet said:
"can we look at an answer from the middle of this morning's interview?"
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I always dual record in those sorts of situations with an Atomos recorder where I can very rapidly with the slider cue up to the necessary takes on the monitor. Very quickly done if you have a PA logging time code and notes on each take. The audio coming from the sound op is going into the camera so the Atomos has good quality audio playback on headphones. Or or if required the Atomos can feed a small set of clip together Sony speakers I have in the kit if a couple of people need to listen at the same time. Avoids all the faffing around trying to cue up cards in cameras. Hate cuing up cameras in the field for playback. Especially cameras like the FS7 that don't have external volume controls for playback or monitoring. Though I overcome that issue for monitoring by using an inline volume control between the camera headphone output and the headphone jack.

Chris Young
 
Going through a shot on an Atomos or a BM camera is fantastic with finger scroll on the monitor. The FS7 far less so with its clunky L-R buttons. Having a monitor that art department can go back 15 shots and check continuity while you are changing set ups even better. Atomos and playback have been a huge boon for other departments to see stuff, even send shots and screenshots to end clients without involving touching the camera is super fantastic. Ive just aquired a 24in monitor and am experimenting with rigging with my old hyperdeck shuttle so that all of that can happen while my atomos may do other duties like recording my GH4 in 10 bit. Many of my shoots are about servicing the director, art department and a 'big cheese' offsite. I offer something that is getting close to 'the real deal'. I also have an animom wireless to feed all of this via a focus puller on my 502 monitor - the puller is using a remote focus.
This line makes for some horrific camera setups in terms of power and wiring.
Dont share.. many people had input on thishttps://vimeo.com/366309749/7aed962369
This is not dougs world (no qualitive statement there - each world has value)

My next shoot is car based, we have FS7 on Movi, BM pocket on vehicle hard mounts, and an unselected camera doing shoulder.
We would be best with three 'FX6' sized cameras (or smaller), the shoulder version being beefed up with a VLock.

Getting all three wireless to the director would cost a fortune!
 
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