New Sony HDV 1080i

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guest
  • Start date Start date
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

Passing on a rumor, from the Sony Vegas forum. Guy says that he got this info from a Sony dealer in Australia, regarding what will be different about the "pro" version (dubbed the HVR-Z1):
- * Separate 2ch Audio level control
- * Audio XLR Inputs with phantom powering
- * Time Code Preset
- * 50i/60i switchable

Now, according to the PDF at http://www.epatra.nl/uploadedfiles/bestanden/download.php?file=HDV_CAMCORDER0904E.pdf_.pdf, which does look official, most of those items are confirmed, but the 50i/60i switchable thing is not spelled out on the PDF, so I doubt that's actually there. If it was, that would certainly be interesting, and might explain some of the enormous price difference (rumored $7,000 vs. $3700 for the consumer version).
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

According to this post at dvinfo.net, someone got the same 50i/60i switchable info for the pro version at a FX1 presentation in Denmark.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

Does anyone know if the consumer version will shoot in intervals? Meaning, will it let you film stop motion without turning the camera off and on?
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

TNT (I think) has been playing a lot of Tom Selleck westerns lately. Many made within the last few years.

One in particular was obviously shot in HD. Crisp resolution, beautiful colors. The lighting and comps were gorgeous. First-class photography, no question, and the costumes and sets were beautiful as well.

But oh my God, did it scream VIDEO. I couldn't even buy the Old West premise, it looked so much like video. If someone had pulled out a cell phone, I wouldn't have even blinked.

Bottom line, which was reinforced for me -- you shoot in 60i and leave it in 60i, you get a movie of the week (made for TV). You shoot in 24p, you get much, much closer to a film.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#124 date=10/05/04 at 20:21:25]TNT (I think) has been playing a lot of Tom Selleck westerns lately.  Many made within the last few years.

One in particular was obviously shot in HD.  Crisp resolution, beautiful colors.  The lighting and comps were gorgeous.  First-class photography, no question, and the costumes and sets were beautiful as well.

But oh my God, did it scream VIDEO.  I couldn't even buy the Old West premise, it looked so much like video.  If someone had pulled out a cell phone, I wouldn't have even blinked.

Bottom line, which was reinforced for me -- you shoot in 60i and leave it in 60i, you get a movie of the week (made for TV).  You shoot in 24p, you get much, much closer to a film.
[/quote]

Do you think it was 60i, 30p or 24p? I cannot see them shooting a made for TV western in 30p or 60i. That sound's ridiculous.

That leads me to a couple of questions.

Has anyone see 60i HDV or HD footage converted to 24p. (Maybe with programs like DVFilmmaker?)

Also if you do go through this conversion, how much of it compressed? And if it is, should you just stay with the DVX and XL2?


Peace
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

720x480(576) was converted to 24p before. Now you can get a higher resolution. So, I guess the film is going to be much better with a HDV FX1 footage.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=Solaam link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#125 date=10/07/04 at 12:44:48]

Do you think it was 60i, 30p or 24p?  I cannot see them shooting a made for TV western in 30p or 60i.  That sound's ridiculous.[/quote]

It was quite clearly 60i.


Has anyone see 60i HDV or HD footage converted to 24p.
Click to expand...

Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=Jestorius link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#126 date=10/07/04 at 12:52:25]720x480(576) was converted to 24p before. Now you can get a higher resolution. So, I guess the film is going to be much better with a HDV FX1 footage.[/quote]

When you convert something recorded in 60i to 24p, you lose half your vertical resolution. Much better to have it in 24p to start with.

True, with the FX1, you'll be starting with a higher resolution than DV.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#127 date=10/07/04 at 12:59:44]
Star Wars:  Episode II:  Attack of the Clones
[/quote]
AOTC was shot in 24P (actually 24PsF, as Sony calls it).

60i has been converted to a simulated 24P for many years, and the results can be pretty good. Marcus Van Bavel of DVFILM.COM has just updated his DVFilm Maker program to support HD resolution, so if you can get ahold of some 1920x1080x60i footage you could download the trial version of Maker and test the conversion for yourself.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#129 date=10/07/04 at 13:20:51]
AOTC was shot in 24P (actually 24PsF, as Sony calls it).

[/quote]

Then I miswrote.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#129 date=10/07/04 at 13:20:51]
AOTC was shot in 24P (actually 24PsF, as Sony calls it).

60i has been converted to a simulated 24P for many years, and the results can be pretty good. Marcus Van Bavel of DVFILM.COM has just updated his DVFilm Maker program to support HD resolution, so if you can get ahold of some 1920x1080x60i footage you could download the trial version of Maker and test the conversion for yourself.
[/quote]

So Barry, can you see the Sony HDV cam with DVFilmmaker being a better cinematic alternative than the DVX and XL2?

If what you guys are saying is true, you can have HDV 16:9 60i footage downconverted to lower resolution 24p but a resolution higher than the DVX or XL2's 16:9 24p resolution.

True?

Peace
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

resolution is one thing...

but color rendition and dynamic range are more important to me.
This is "my" big question for the new Sony HDV camera...
...and what about audio ?

I can't answer why Sony would continue to sell BetaSp cameras if the new HDV camera is "that" good...

from some grabs i've seen on the internet, it seems to have very poor dynamic range and a big tendency to darken the colors, the blue is very very dark, and the green seems to never pop up.
...but i might be very wrong...
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=Solaam link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#131 date=10/07/04 at 17:49:48]

So Barry, can you see the Sony HDV cam with DVFilmmaker being a better cinematic alternative than the DVX and XL2?  

If what you guys are saying is true, you can have HDV 16:9 60i footage downconverted to lower resolution 24p but a resolution higher than the DVX or XL2's 16:9 24p resolution.  
[/quote]
That is my guess, yes. We'll have to see it in person, but yes, I'm thinking that IF ALL OTHER THINGS ARE EQUAL, you may be looking at potentially a better cinema camera, depending on how well 1080/60i converts to 1080/24P, vs. how well 720x480/24P up-rezzes to 1080/24P. I've seen some promising up-rezzing from the DVX to 720/24P, so I look forward to seeing the Sony and comparing how it does with its frame conversion, vs. how the DVX does with up-rezzing.

The potential is there. Now we just have to see if the reality is there too.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=Antoine_Fabi link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=120#132 date=10/07/04 at 17:58:49]resolution is one thing...

but color rendition and dynamic range are more important to me.
This is "my" big question for the new Sony HDV camera...
...and what about audio ?[/quote]
Yes, all excellent points. That's why I say "if all other things are equal". The JVC had much higher resolution, but all other factors were significantly subpar when compared to the DVX, so the net result was that it was an inferior choice. We'll have to see how the Sony fares.

I can't answer why Sony would continue to sell BetaSp cameras if the new HDV camera is "that" good...
Click to expand...
Sony doesn't sell BetaSP cameras, those have been discontinued for quite a while. They do sell BetaSX, MPEG-IMX, Digital Betacam, HDCAM, HDCAM SR, DVCAM, and that DVD-optical format thing though...
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

========================================
"Sony doesn't sell BetaSP cameras, those have been discontinued for quite a while.  They do sell BetaSX, MPEG-IMX, Digital Betacam, HDCAM, HDCAM SR, DVCAM, and that DVD-optical format thing though... "
========================================

OK,

but then, the same question comparing with high end (high priced) SD cameras...no ?
How will they justify high price tags on SD cameras ?

or, then...

the HDV camera is not "that" good...

they "must" have some sort of justification...no ?

...just imagine a minute the HDV camera produced a better picture that the big shouldercam... :o

I dont think Sony will do that, but i think they would be very capable to though...

Panasonic is not in the same wagon...
I think they will come out pretty soon with something very very close to high end cameras, HD, just because they dont sell as much broadcast equipment as Sony (for the moment)...and they have the technology, no doubts.

Let's hope ::)
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

You could make the same argument about Matrox... Matrox used to offer the expensive $10,000 DigiSuite, and they introduced the RT2000 card at $1000 and crippled it. People were furious, and so Matrox removed the crippling and sold lots of RT2000's. Don't know if they ever sold another DigiSuite, but it really doesn't matter, as the market moved on.

Look at Avid: they used to sell $30,000 Media Composers, and they offered a stripped-down version for PC's. Well, nowadays Avid Xpress is basically full-featured, isn't it? And I imagine they don't sell too many $30,000 MC's anymore, but hey, too bad -- the market changed, and they couldn't get $30,000 for a Media Composer when someone could get a $2000 Vegas system or a $2500 FCP system, so the market changed, and Avid had to adapt. I'm sure they didn't want to, but the market changed. Too bad, y'know?

So Sony can cling to selling $40,000 MPEG-IMX cameras, but if they don't introduce a quality HDV camera, they can have their lunch packed for them when someone else does. Whether that's JVC (who are supposed to announce a killer $20,000 3-CCD 2/3" interchangeable-lens 1080/24P & 1080/60i camera) or Panasonic or someone else, we'll see. Big companies control markets by force of their reputations for a while, but not forever (when's the last time you saw an IBM desktop PC?)

Markets change. Maybe Sony's going to be on the front of this change this time. Or maybe they'll continue to cripple their product in order to "preserve" sales of their more expensive line, a tactic that was tried by IBM (with the PC Jr) and by Avid and by Matrox and by all sorts of other companies. It always fails, and it will fail again.

Heck, Avid even gives away a free version of their software now, Avid FreeDV.

The market is changing.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

...very good points !
I didn't know about Matrox...

I think you're 100% right.

OK, let's see if Sony see it "that" way...they used to "protect" their big cameras in the past, no doubt in my mind they could have done much better with the PD170. The DVX100 and 100A did much much better.

...and i think you're right again...if they dont deliver, someone else will...

Well...good for us !
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

Soft Image (stripped down massively) is now 500 dollars.

It used to be 45,000 dollars, or so I hear. Pretty soon, the line between the pros and the amazingly talented amateurs will be only that the amateurs haven't been hired yet. Video and video editing are getting better incredibly quickly.

Sadly, talent and dedication have not gone down at price one bit. The last exteremly successful ultra-low-budget film was Blair Witch and that was an abysmal piece of cinema.
 
Re: New Sony HDV 1080i

[quote author=Antoine_Fabi link=board=XL2;num=1094548720;start=135#135 date=10/07/04 at 19:09:24]
but then, the same question comparing with high end (high priced) SD cameras...no ?
How will they justify high price tags on SD cameras ?

or, then...

the HDV camera is not "that" good...

they "must" have some sort of justification...no ?
[/quote]
Why should there be some justification? They are completely different types of cameras with different user requirements. It's like comparing the DVX100 to the AJ-SDX900. Both Panasonic cameras shoot in SD and have 24p, but are the qualitative differences worth the $22,000 increase?

By your logic (and your statement) I would conclude that the DVX is not "that" good.

From those that have handled the camera, by almost every account, the responses have been EXTREMELY positive regarding the camera's performance. With the exception of the disappointment from the lack of 24p and the concern about motion artifacts during pans, the camera has all the hallmarks to be a big hit with prosumers.

Like Barry, I too feel the Sony has the potential to be a great cinema camera provided of course on how well its 1080i footage converts to 24p.

Bottom line is this: Pound for pound, and dollar for dollar the DVX and FX1 are great cameras for their class, but they will never replace the big boys in performance and image quality.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top