New Panasonic 4K 60P Camcorder HC-X1000

It seems chasing the perfect camera is like a carrot dangling that you never reach.

I've been hunting for something to replace my beloved HMC150 for a while now. Something that's a monumental upgrade and not just an improved sidestep.

This camera sounds perfect in every way but that low light performance pretty much ruins it for me. Dang. HMC150 sensitivity is about as bad as I'd be willing to tolerate.
 
DBP said:
It seems chasing the perfect camera is like a carrot dangling that you never reach.

I've been hunting for something to replace my beloved HMC150 for a while now. Something that's a monumental upgrade and not just an improved sidestep.

This camera sounds perfect in every way but that low light performance pretty much ruins it for me. Dang. HMC150 sensitivity is about as bad as I'd be willing to tolerate.
Click to expand...

Good luck finding that in a 4k camera at this price point. You have to kind of be realistic when it comes to cameras. Certain models one can roughly expect how it fits in the market. The HMC150 was considered a pretty high end camera. This new camera is kind of on the lower end. The HMC150 also used 960x540 1/3" sensors, three of them to be exact. Those pixels are massive compared to 4k crammed into a single sensor. That's like 16x the light gathering area per pixel. There is just no way this camera could ever be considered a great low light solution. It is really there if you need 4k right now and can work around the low light limitations if you really want to venture into 4k this early in the game.

A camera really needs a larger sensor in order to handle low light better. A larger sensor will greatly increase the cost of the camera. It also greatly increases the cost of the electronic lens built into the camera. To be honest I wouldn't really consider anything smaller than 1/2" or even 2/3" to be even remotely considered professional level for low light performance. Even HD was better with larger sensors. Cramming 4k into a 1/3" or 1/2.3" sensor is never going to be great.
 
I'm shooting a wedding on this in September - I feel confident it will perform OK, but I'm contemplating using a different camera for inside the church... That said, I have shot in terrible low, red, light and it still turned out OK.
 
I think people are misunderstanding each other on the low light argument, failing to realize how miserable 64 iso can be even in decently-lit indoor environments (Think speech on a stage lit by 4 leeko lights).

Side by side with a regular 1080p ENG camera running its 320-ish or whatever base iso, this camera needs at least 15db of gain to begin outputting the same brightness. Even down-resed 4K to 1080, 15db looks cruddy with dithered blacks and significantly lowered dynamic range.

Having tried this camera on a few indoor shoots alongside a Sony NX5U and even a six year old HPX-170, the images were inferior on my time-line after downresing to 1080p. So for indoors work this camera is unquestionably a step back even compared to 5+yr old 1/3" camcorders. I think this is the cause of some of the dissatisfaction with its lack of sensitivity, as people were expecting to at least retain the same quality as their old cameras once the output was downsized to 1080p or even 720. So before bashing the people complaining, understand that 64 iso is slightly ridiculous for even stage-lit events since you will be applying TONS of gain to get usable brightness, killing dynamic range and eating up your color information.
 
ogodude said:
I think people are misunderstanding each other on the low light argument, failing to realize how miserable 64 iso can be even in decently-lit indoor environments (Think speech on a stage lit by 4 leeko lights).

Side by side with a regular 1080p ENG camera running its 320-ish or whatever base iso, this camera needs at least 15db of gain to begin outputting the same brightness. Even down-resed 4K to 1080, 15db looks cruddy with dithered blacks and significantly lowered dynamic range.

Having tried this camera on a few indoor shoots alongside a Sony NX5U and even a six year old HPX-170, the images were inferior on my time-line after downresing to 1080p. So for indoors work this camera is unquestionably a step back even compared to 5+yr old 1/3" camcorders. I think this is the cause of some of the dissatisfaction with its lack of sensitivity, as people were expecting to at least retain the same quality as their old cameras once the output was downsized to 1080p or even 720. So before bashing the people complaining, understand that 64 iso is slightly ridiculous for even stage-lit events since you will be applying TONS of gain to get usable brightness, killing dynamic range and eating up your color information.
Click to expand...

This. For outdoors, I'm sure it'll be lovely. For indoor event stuff, I can't imagine it'll be much use anywhere. The HMC150 is rated at 500iso and it gets pushed in many venues and their default lighting. Not much you can do for event shooting.

For studio controlled lighting stuff, I wouldn't be using a camera like this anyway.

I understand the reasons for the limitations though. It is what it is.
 
Guys, I too am a new owner of the Pany HC-X1000; I am learning as well this little guy is just another "Tool" in the bag and knowledge is power on understanding its strengths & weaknesses. This Camera was a purchased un-researched gift and therefore for now, I must work around the limitations. My big question is, are there any custom "Scene Files" developed for the HC-X1000? Or at least anyone experimenting yet with the scene files?? The "Preset" Scene files leave much to be desired... Thanks.
 
Scout Pro,

Try out these settings....


Scene 1
Detail = +3
Chroma Level = -1
Chrome Phase = 0
Master Ped = 0
Auto IRIS = 0
DRS = 2
Gamma = HD Norm
Matrix = Norm1
Knee = Auto
AGC Limit = 15db
NR Control = 0

Scene 6
Detail = +3
Chroma Level = -7
Chroma Phase = +1
Master Pedestal = -1
Auto IRIS = -3
DRS = 2
Gamma Cine-Like V
Matrix = Cine-Like
Knee = Auto
AGC Limit = 15db
NR Control = 0




 
I think a lot of people have decided to ignore it's existence because it's in the consumer section of Panasonic's market and web-sight, with only a 1 year warranty, not the Pro section like the AC90 and 130 are.

http://4k.com/camera/
 
I don't care which division, but then I am just a serious amateur :-). The 1/2 inch sensor and weak low light made me bypass it. The DVX200, with 4/3rds sensor, LOG setting, 60p 4K and 120fps HD, etc. is strongly on my radar, especially if it can possibly come in closer to $4K than $5K.
 
philiplipetz said:
So will the same attitude prevail with the DVX200 that also is in the consumer section?
Click to expand...


Where do you see the DVX200 in the consumer section?

http://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/camcorders


The camera was first referenced by Kuniniko Miyagi in his blog. Mr. Miyagi is Director of Panasonic's Professional AV Business Unit.

http://panasonicprovideo.tumblr.com/search/dvx200


The DVX200 has Timecode and SDI ports, which are very much professional camera features.
Where did Panasonic place the DVX100?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top