New Cinema EOS camera announcement

J Davis said:
Found it !

c series is full frame not aps-c or s35, codec is Motion-Jpeg



link to press release on canon website
http://usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/newsroom?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e024803cf0aa
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Thanks a lot for the link!!
This info and the other bits you posted later lead me to think the 4K DSLR will be something like the following:
* 1DX sensor (5184x3456), because it is the fullframe option that has the fastest read-out times
* read only the central area, either 4096x2048 (crop factor 1.26x) or 3840x2160 (crop factor 1.35x)
* store those images as a stream of jpegs, all-intra, with 4:4:4 8-bit color

it would be awesome if they could get rid of the mirror, ovf, mechanical shutter, contrast-detect-AF system, etc, and sell this for $4500, but I doubt that will happen
if it has all the stills capabilities of the 1DX, price would be north of that (but then why have two so-similar bodies? just because the encoding chip was not ready for 1DX launch time?)
 
I'm seeing the C-DSLR as a pure image making machine, perhaps no audio AT ALL. After all do you get audio (Or built in NDs) on a 35mm cine camera? Thought not.

So the C-DSLR and C-300 aren'r competetors at all, just different tools for different jobs, and even a $4500 price tag wouldn't hurt sales of the C300.

And yes, from what I remember reading 36x24mm 1080p H264 and cropped (They said "H" but it could be either side of 1.3) 4k MJPEG. No idea of bit rate, but Chuck Wesfall did hint at filling a 16 gig card in 6 mins, roughing out at 360mbps.

Just a random thought, 5DIII and 1DX I-Frame 91 mbps, Canon "4k" 4x HD 360-ish mbps ie 4x the data rate. Worth thinking on?
 
daveswan said:
I'm seeing the C-DSLR as a pure image making machine, perhaps no audio AT ALL. After all do you get audio (Or built in NDs) on a 35mm cine camera? Thought not.
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With no audio, these days?!!
35mm was never a digital format.
 
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This is definately a complicated space. In my view, the C300 is Canon's mark in the sand and can be viewed in different ways. I think Canon sees and prices the C300 as a mid to high-point in their high end offerings. They obviously put a higher price tag on anything more than 8-bit 4:2:2 output. Now this does not jive with a lot of buyers because of the price alone. It looks expensive next to Sony's F3 with S-log. We all want cameras with more features for less. Canon can be called conservative, but I think of it as Canon never wants to give anything away. They probably do have a C500 planned that will have all of the best. It will just cost you more to get the best.

So this CDSLR will be something in the middle and probably a little higher price than a lot want to pay. Canon has perfected the trickle in the middle and blow out at the top (for a huge price) approach to product releases. But I have found they do know how to deliver the goods as well with great image quality. This camera along with the new DSLRs will cause Sony & Panasonic to respond as well. The cost of making these cameras is so much lower as shown by the DSLR revolution. Amazing what you can and will get in the near future for the price.
 
dustylense said:
I don't think we've even seen enough of the 5dmk3 to give it a definite judging. Or at least in the hands of a few that could make it truly shine. Heck, I bet they are still turning the sharpness all the way down just out of habit. But there are tons of complaints about it's price at $3500 (just like the $16,000 camera everyone thinks is too expensive). And now without even knowing what this new camera is I'm already seeing judgment of what it should be and for how much. Lets assume it's the 4k xf422 8 bit at $9800. I see pitch forks in the town center! But a camera at $3500 with a pretty unique image? All I see of it are comments of it being so close but yet just not the camera they "hope" for. How much would that camera have cost 5 maybe 6 years ago?

Don't expect to be blown away April 15th. Expect another camera and decide if its for you and your business model. Wash, rinse, repeat...
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Perfect. LOL I see pitchforks in the town center. Classic.
 
I'm thinking $10k and no pro audio.....and I'd buy it. If its everything in for $10k its cheaper than the Scarlet, and I'd keep my 5D mark II for photos, because I love it for stills.
 
Nuno Dias said:
It was not a disappointment to me at all!

Speak for yourself.
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I was.

Nuno Dias said:
People tend to be negative, even before they know what it is that's coming. These are usually the people that will never buy these cameras, A; because they usually only have $800 to spend, and B; because they can't do anything with them even if their lives depended on it. These complainers are not professional shooters, they are professional complainers. It's just noise and trash that fill these forums.
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That's quite a talent you have for generalizations. Dilettantes are hardly confined to the >$800 segment that you so callously deride. There are talentless hobbyists that own Red's, F3's, and C300's too. Some of these people will shoot nothing with them but a handful of innocuous cat videos and backyard foliage videos and maybe rent them out a few times. Some of them would not be able to do anything worthwhile with them even if "their lives depended on it" as you said.

There is of course, a kernel of truth to the idea that some people use a never-ending parade of technical deficiencies to procrastinate. There are also people whose gear lust far exceeds their creative ambition or ability. I disagree, however, that complaining about artificially-crippled products automatically lands you in either one of these camps.

Nuno Dias said:
Stop bit chin', because your riff raff gets old real quick!
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Delusions of grandeur get old quick too.

Jim Martin said:
Disappointing....I guess that is disappointing to you.
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You guessed right!

Jim Martin said:
A lot of people here in town(Hollywood) are looking forward to the 1DX for it's attributes. The first 4 C300s that went out of our store went straight to features as the "A" camera. The 8th camera went the HBO show "Luck". The 5D III is obviously aimed at the still shooters and we are getting a good amount of pre-orders...
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Obviously, it has a market. I never meant to insinuate otherwise. I would buy one if I could afford it. Don't care about 4k yet. My disappointment lies in Canon not releasing anything in the 5DM2-FS100 segment that comes anywhere close to the innovative quantum leap of the original 5DM2. This disappointment is amplified when they institute price hikes while simultaneously hamstringing their lower tier items for no other reason then to protect their new upmarket items. Can you really not see why this would leave a sour taste in some people's mouths?

If they can get away with it, if that's what the market will bear...more power to them. Business is business. I might even buy a 5DM3 if nothing else better comes along in the next six months or so.

But I'm still going to root against them on principle.

mico said:
What you're seeing is a frenzy of confusion in the rez war waters occupied by price averse tech entitled rather whine than create do nothings brought upon by Canons rather quick delivery of all the bounty one could ask for.
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Where does perceived value for money stop and "tech entitled" begin, I wonder?

There is a rather large difference (to put it very mildly) between not wanting to support planned obsolescence, and say, expecting 2012 Ferrari 458 Italia performance for 1986 Toyota Tercel money.

dustylense said:
All I see of it are comments of it being so close but yet just not the camera they "hope" for. How much would that camera have cost 5 maybe 6 years ago?
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Apart from giving veterans the opportunity to make crotchety "Back in MY day..." speeches, why does it matter what modern cameras would have cost 5 or 6 years ago? Modern cameras or modern anything, for that matter. I agree that cameras today are no longer an impediment to anyone's success but...appreciating technological progress and holding modern tech to modern standards are not two mutually exclusive concepts.
 
arroway said:
I was.




Apart from giving veterans the opportunity to make crotchety "Back in MY day..." speeches, why does it matter what modern cameras would have cost 5 or 6 years ago? Modern cameras or modern anything, for that matter. I agree that cameras today are no longer an impediment to anyone's success but...appreciating technological progress and holding modern tech to modern standards are not two mutually exclusive concepts.
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Then you my friend have no concepts of economics. I bought the original 5d bak in 06 for $3200. The dollar being much stronger in 06. How is that dollar doing today? Maybe you have to be as you say "crotchety" to understand that. The world market combined with a nation who TODAY remembers a tsunami and a nuclear meltdown? Again, where is that dollar today compared to 2006? This cinema cam at 4k will sit above $9000.
 
Shane Hurlbut posted on Twitter that he's looking for 2 lighting interns to help on a commercial with the Bandito Brothers. The shoot will take place in Baker, CA. 03/15-16th. Could this be something regarding the 4K DSLR?
 
dustylense said:
Then you my friend have no concepts of economics. I bought the original 5d bak in 06 for $3200. The dollar being much stronger in 06. How is that dollar doing today? Maybe you have to be as you say "crotchety" to understand that. The world market combined with a nation who TODAY remembers a tsunami and a nuclear meltdown? Again, where is that dollar today compared to 2006? This cinema cam at 4k will sit above $9000.
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Not sure it will sit above $9K. I think if it is in video/camcorder form factor that it entirely possible, however in DSLR form I suspect it will be closer to the 1DX in price, without perhaps some of the functionality on the photo side of that camera. This would be somewhat logical to me, but then again reality has way of continually proving how flawed my logic can be.
 
I agree with other comments here that the Cinema EOS will not undercut Canon's C300, at least not in video-centric ergonomics/features. While it might have a higher resolution, it will lack many of the features most desired by filmmakers (e.g., XLRs, SDI), but it will be a further evolution of the promise represented by the 5DMk2 and now the Mk3. It will be, in essence, a dSLR with some usable video features, most notably 4K. But it will likely have an 8-bit codec, which is obviously not on par with, say, Alexa's. But if that Motion-JPEG is indeed M-JPEG2000, well that would be great. Otherwise, it would be nice if it had clean HDMI out (maybe even 10-bit).
 
Noel Evans said:
Just a thought for those "underwhelmed by the C300 specs on paper" - why not get out and actually use one. I wont try and sway you with my thoughts on it - just suggest you try.
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+1

I've got a week-long shoot at the end of the month. Budget would get me just about any camera I wanted - save the Alexa, I've used pretty much everything out there. For this specific project the C300 is clearly the best tool for the job. As Noel said, looking at specs and a $figure are a small part of the story.
 
NormanBates said:
Thanks a lot for the link!!
This info and the other bits you posted later lead me to think the 4K DSLR will be something like the following:
* 1DX sensor (5184x3456), because it is the fullframe option that has the fastest read-out times
* read only the central area, either 4096x2048 (crop factor 1.26x) or 3840x2160 (crop factor 1.35x)
* store those images as a stream of jpegs, all-intra, with 4:4:4 8-bit color

it would be awesome if they could get rid of the mirror, ovf, mechanical shutter, contrast-detect-AF system, etc, and sell this for $4500, but I doubt that will happen
if it has all the stills capabilities of the 1DX, price would be north of that (but then why have two so-similar bodies? just because the encoding chip was not ready for 1DX launch time?)
Click to expand...

I think something like that would be nice. I would keep the sound jack and a headphone one. In 2012, I don't think a digital camera without sound, even with only a mini jack is marketable. If they put a competitive price on it, it would continue the Canon HDslr commitment and legacy. At first I thought that it would an awkward product since the C300 launch, but a bare.. dslr body form factor against a full camera body and functionality could be enough to separate those two for two distinct market. The C-dslr catering for the small/indie budget crowd that prioritize image quality above form factor and functionality at the most competitive cost. The second being the more traditional commercial video crowd that need a much more flexible tool that can be set up and used without a ton of accessories.

If I had the money somehow I would never invest in a C-300 with the slog F3 at the same if not lower price point. But that is my preference and anybody can have his own.
 
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