New Canon HD camera?

It seems the biggest concern is the 24F, and that's what is ultimately on my mind: the JVC with the Fujinon HDTV lens is about $14,000 (about $9500-10K for the lens, 4400 for camera body). Let's say the 24F works on the Canon, and it can be transferred to 35mm. What other hesitations:

-a problematic lens; JVC's generic Fujinon shipping with the HD100 or this new Canon

Canon's CCDs has more than 60% more pixels per CCD, 4:2:2, 4 audio channels. If 24F convinces everyone it is true 24p HD (that is, HDV from its tape deck), then how can someone hold back from the Canon for image quality vs. the JVC, regardless of manual control?
 
I feel very pressed on this issue of XL H1 vs. HD100, since I was originally planning on getting 2 JVC's and use 720, 24P!!!!!
 
goldyprog said:
If 24F convinces everyone it is true 24p HD, then how can someone hold back from the Canon for image quality vs. the JVC, regardless of manual control?
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I don't think anyone's really doing that... at nine grand it ought to do something better. The problem is that even if the "24F" thing turns out to be acceptable 24-frame-like footage, you still have to record it to HDV. Like mmm pointed out, you don't really have the best of all worlds with any of these cameras. You just have to find the best hardware solution that works for your needs.
 
Haakon said:
I don't think anyone's really doing that... at nine grand it ought to do something better. The problem is that even if the "24F" thing turns out to be acceptable 24-frame-like footage, you still have to record it to HDV. Like mmm pointed out, you don't really have the best of all worlds with any of these cameras. You just have to find the best hardware solution that works for your needs.
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I agree with you and mmm, all four camera's from all four manufacturers don't give us exactly what any of us may be looking for-- there's +'s and --'s.

Also, with the JVC, there's a 6 pin firewire port, whereas it looks like the Canon XL H1 only has a 4 pin. And, no LCD (though a 2.4 " color viewfinder), just like the other XL's and this new and upcoming one.
 
We should all club together and make our own camera! Put all these mega-corps outta business!

Now, we need a catchy name...
 
goldyprog said:
Canon's CCDs has more ... 4:2:2
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Canon's XL-H1 does not have 4:2:2 recording. It does, however, include a 4:2:2 digital output.
This is completely worthless unless the owner has a portable HD-SDI capture device.

Find one.

goldyprog said:
I feel very pressed on this issue of XL H1 vs. HD100, since I was originally planning on getting 2 JVC's and use 720, 24P!!!!!
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The HD100 is turning into a great camera. JVC is taking care of the customers.
 
I mean, isn't this essentially what the Andromeda was doing (but in 4:4:4)? I don't know, I'm asking...

Matt
 
Hi Matt,

I'm not sure, really. I would imagine anything is possible with a PowerMac and a BlackMagic card... For me, "portable" is the key word.

Interestingly enough, a DVCProHD deck may be suitable because of the HD-SDI input.
Although it is compressed, it is a more robust format than HDV... Mainly because of the 4:2:2...

Hope this helps,
Brian
 
Well if a DVCProHD deck would do it, that would be portable enough for me for an indie film.

Interestingly though, I find myself between a rock and a hard place for an upcomming doc that someone is asking me to help with in Africa. The DVX would be the perfect HD solution for portability (P2 Cards and REAL HD). But I think I'd need the Canon for reach (this is if they go HD if they go SD I'll use my XL2) as I often find myself filming from a LONG way away (harder for them to draw a bead on you). Seriously, the Canon is the only camera that gives me that kind of reach (High end surveillance footage if you will). I can't hump a powermac with me into the bush and I don't think I could do this with a powerbook, have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

Matt
 
Another option, should you choose to go P2, is shooting 1080P, then digitally zooming in by 2x.
Effectively, you'd end up with 720P with the "reach" of a 116mm lens. Just a thought.
 
If they do this (and can afford to do it, which is the only way I'LL do it) I'll be using at least a Canon 500mm EF lens with the EF adapter giving me effectively a 3,600mm lens.

That's what I mean when I say reach....

116mm is for amateurs....

:beer:
 
Well any prosessional HD recorder will have and HD-SDI input..so you can record to DVCPRO-HD tape, BETACAM-HD, and hell even to a P2 'deck'!

- Mikko
 
If they do this (and can afford to do it, which is the only way I'LL do it) I'll be using at least a Canon 500mm EF lens with the EF adapter giving me effectively a 3,600mm lens.
Click to expand...

I assume you want to shoot the Africa doc from your house... ;-))
 
mikkowilson said:
Well any prosessional HD recorder will have and HD-SDI input..so you can record to DVCPRO-HD tape, BETACAM-HD, and hell even to a P2 'deck'!

- Mikko
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But with the extra expense, you could basically just hire a Varicam, or one of the other higher end HD options about to arrive in the $20,000 range.

MattC,

I am pretty sure that you could capture straight to a G5, but it would need RAID storage for uncompressed capture. You could obviously compress it on capture and save your self the trouble.

Is there a HD-SDI card for a Powerbook, or any laptop? There probably is somewhere, but is $$$$.
 
Matt, this camera would be such a better choice over the HVX for what you are doing. If the 20x isn't enough you can also bring longer lenses. In case folks are confused, this camera does REAL 24P. It's called 24F because it captures 24 Frames in the CCD. THIS IS NOT HOW THE SONY CAMERA DOES ITS CINEFRAME. When you switch you actually switch how the CCD captures. And it's 1440x1080 and not 960x1080. With an uncompressed 4:2:2 1.485gbps HD-SDI output, and SD capture and SD-SDI output, along with internal recorder this camera offers, and component output and firewire you couldn't get more options. The options are great because you don't need additional equipment to capture the signals. ANd you can capture camera settings and store them, then use the SD card to transfer the settings to other cameras like more pro cameras do. In my book this camera just knocked the HVX off it's pedestal. I will seriously consider this camera as my next purchase. I'm IMPRESSED!
 
Walter_Graff said:
...along with internal recorder this camera offers, and component output and firewire you couldn't get more options. The options are great because you don't need additional equipment to capture the signals.
Click to expand...

I would have like to seen a "middle-ground" capture method. It is either 25Mb/s or 1.4Gb/s!
 
This camera is more pro than prosumer so it offers what someone like me wants more than what one might want doing movies at home. I have been doing a few projects with HDV lately and I like it a lot. Having the option to record uncompressed output with this new entry is fantastic.
 
But 960x1080 was bad enough on the Sony in terms of noise / low light / dynamic range / contrast etc. By Canon using 1440x1080 (trying to "win" in the CCD resolution game) they've got to be compromising the above parameters still further to achieve their resolution goals. Also, any extra sharpness recorded is just going to add that little bit more stress onto the HDV codec.... It's going to be very interesting to get some footage from it and see if the Canon compromise produces a better looking result than the Sony compromise. But at least now we're getting choices!

Graeme
 
First off these are not Sony chips. Canon is using pixel shift. Canon if anyone has a great deal of experience in taking CCD info and translating it to digital as they have been doing it in the still world for quite a while. They take advantage of this with their Digic DVII DSP. I think comparing this camera to Sony's in wrong because Canon is using a different method to attain a picture than Sony and has quite of bit of background in doing so. I've always thought the XL2 produced the best picture of the SD cameras and hope to get my hands on this as soon as I can to do some testing.
 
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