New Canon HD camera?
- Thread starter tim_brown
- Start date
I guess I feel really confused as to all of the hype for this one... did everyone just suddenly turn into studio videographers as opposed to independent filmmakers? The real benefit of the XL system is interchangable lenses, yet with a $9,000(!) starting point, I certainly wouldn't have cash left over to fork out for better glass. Uncompressed HD out is "cool," but who has room for all of that data - especially in "run and gun" shooting environments? We already know there's no variable framerate of any kind, and at the end of the day, you're STILL recording to 25Mbps HDV!! If nothing else, that's reason enough for me to say no thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this camera will run circles around the Sony, but in my opinon, that's not saying much. Is there some key factor I'm missing here?
I guess this whole 24Frame mode is there so the XL2 owners won't be pissed off. It sounds to me like the footage can be easily dropped into an NLE at 24p. Hopefully it won't lose vertical resolution like the sony. Maybe Cineform will make something for this exact purpose.
Damon Botsford
Court Jester
Sweet!!!!!
Now all I have to do is order a Firestore uncompressed HD-SDI capture device. Yeah, in the year 2015. Come on computer technology... catch up! catch up!
The funny thing is, all the guys that were freakin' out about absolutely needing uncompressed out probably won't buy this camera. Reality sinks in... it costs how much to edit this stuff??!!!!
Now all I have to do is order a Firestore uncompressed HD-SDI capture device. Yeah, in the year 2015. Come on computer technology... catch up! catch up!
The funny thing is, all the guys that were freakin' out about absolutely needing uncompressed out probably won't buy this camera. Reality sinks in... it costs how much to edit this stuff??!!!!
Antoine_Fabi
Well-known member
WOW !!!!!
If the info is true,
...then that Canon HD "black beauty" is exactly what i was looking for !
When is it supposed to be available ?
EDIT
oh...dont get me wrong, i am going to buy also a HVX200, but only if the noise level is acceptable.
If the info is true,
...then that Canon HD "black beauty" is exactly what i was looking for !
When is it supposed to be available ?
EDIT
oh...dont get me wrong, i am going to buy also a HVX200, but only if the noise level is acceptable.
Digigenic
Well-known member
I think that when the smoke settles, and we've reviewed some beautiful footage from both cams, I'll still find myself attached to the HVX. I finally sat down a moment ago and slowly reviewed the XLH1 specs (price included, gah), and breathed it all in, relfected on my feelings for the HVX::tear runs down my cheek:: I think the HVX is still my number one pick.
Any side by side spec comparisons available yet?
Any side by side spec comparisons available yet?
Me too. I'm not willing to give up 4:2:2 color space for anything lower end at this point (I love my greenscreen)!
Still does seem like the H1 will be a nice camera and I'm sure it will fit the needs of many.
EDIT: make that 4:2:2 color sampling! Color space is another topic entirely
Still does seem like the H1 will be a nice camera and I'm sure it will fit the needs of many.
EDIT: make that 4:2:2 color sampling! Color space is another topic entirely
glassblowerscat
Well-known member
Haakon said:
I think it's important not to overlook that this could be a good "growth" camera. If you don't have money to handle HD-SDI and its accompanying data rate, you can just buy the camera and use tape, and you'll still be shooting HD. There are people to whom even HDV is a big step up from DV. Like HDNet Films, for example.
But then, if you outgrow the HDV, and you've saved your pennies properly, you can buy yourself the appropriate additional equipment to record through HD-SDI.
Point being, you have two solutions for recording HD, one cheap and one expensive, and that's more than anyone else, including our beloved <lust>HVX</lust> is offering.
This whole "cheap" HD revolution is great. It makes me wonder if we will start seeing more indie stuff up on the big screen in the near future.
I'm looking forward to the Panasonic at the moment but there are beginning to be so many HD options there's just about something for everyone. Exciting times!
I'm looking forward to the Panasonic at the moment but there are beginning to be so many HD options there's just about something for everyone. Exciting times!
At this point I would say the Panny is the better field camera and the XL is the better studio camera. Which one is better for film makers? Depends on how you work... I agree, let the dust settle before anyone is declared king. However, I think we are going to be back in the XL2 vs DVX world... where neither camera has a clear advantage.
ash =o)
ash =o)
mikkowilson
Steadi-Guru
mmm said:
Small market?
The market for live cameras is huge!
Let's say that a live system on average has 4 cameras.. most have 3, but many more have 5,6,8+
How many video switchers are sold each year? Now i'm not just talking the Panny MX20/50/70, the Videoonics/Focus MX1/Pro/proDV/MX4 the Datavideo SE800, etc.... I'm talking ALL switchers!! Ross, Grass Valley, Sony, For-A, S&W, Philips, etc.. (and lets not forget the Video Toaster, Tricaster, Globecaster..) This camera is DIRECTLY compatible with every video switcher moddel in the world!
..Hell, with the PAL/NTSC switching enabled, this camera is really the first one (even close to it's price) that can be plugged into ANY live system, and be instantly available and operational, in sync, without need for TBC or frame buffer.
And with more and more people/companies/groups going to HD.. this is a BIG BIG thing!
Hell, even your local church with large AV system who has those new nice HD ready projectors, and allready preshoots HD stuff with the Z1/HD100/[HVX] but is wondering how will they ever afford ot make the live mix HD can now do it!
Your local TV station that is worried about how to make the upgrade.. is allready shooting some of it's news stories in HD, and producing HD news.. but based in a SD studio environment, are desperatly looking for new HD studio cameras that won't cost them $75,000 (the curent price of a basic Sony HD studio camera, without lens)
..Or maybe they allready have HD local news studoio cameras too.. but how about that Microwave or Sat van? they have the HD feed gear in place.. but a HD live cemara for a Microwave truck? pricy.. nope! this is perfect for that!
..you get the idea.
The HVX will still be the most versitle camera out there for the indy shooter, and for field work.. but there is a huge section of the market that jsut got a LOT of features they've been after for a while!
- Mikko.
Shaw said:
It is really annoying though - there are all these different cameras coming out, and NONE of them match my, very common, needs! It isn't a choice of what fits my needs, it is a choice of which lacks the fewest features.
The Sony has no progressive scan and is HDV only.
The JVC has faults still, no reality mode, bad lens (CA aside, just wide angle), poor battery life. 720 only.
HVX - too heavy for form factor, fixed lens, very expensive to shoot and archive anything but DV.
XLH1 - Expensive, but still only HDV only. HD-SDI output worthless for indie filmmakers. Servo lens??
Surely someone can get this right! For God's sake:
HVX in a HD100/XLH1 form factor with built-in controller for external memory - HD and solid state. More modern codec than DVCPRO HD but higher bitrate than HDV. HDV option to tape. $7500. Anyone got a factory?
Well there is always that Thomson Grass Valley Infinty HD camera for 19K =D. It records 4:2:2 10bit video in the JPEG2000 codec.
What I'm eagerly awaiting is a camera that records to 1$ holographic media in a modern wavelet codec in 4:2:2 10 bit for 10K or less. One of these days we'll see it I believe (a few years away at least certainly)....
What I'm eagerly awaiting is a camera that records to 1$ holographic media in a modern wavelet codec in 4:2:2 10 bit for 10K or less. One of these days we'll see it I believe (a few years away at least certainly)....
mikkowilson said:
Maybe it is because I only watch the 5 terrestrial channels in the UK, but in my experience, if you can afford a studio, you aren't going to be spending £6-7k on a camera - it is such a vital link, but a tiny budget percentage. Why compromise the picture with a 1/3" CCD camera.
I would be surprised if even 10% of these cameras ever output a HD-SDI signal. I think the money could have been better spent... but maybe it was dirty cheap to implement..!?!
Lol... I agree with you completely, mmm. Although I do think that DVCPROHD is a good compromise between quality and data rate.mmm said:
glassblowerscat, if you don't have the money to handle HD-SDI and its accompanying data rate, why not just buy the Sony for $5,000 less? You can have your HDV and eat it, too (please, take mine).
Mikko, you're talking about production systems with 4+ cameras (?!) and extensive post equipment... I don't think most of us have that kind of setup. Even if we did run some kind of "live switching environment," are you really going to want to save your masters in HDV? Uncompressed is great, if you've got the storage and means to store it, but to do that you've added several thousand more dollars to your budget (and the camera is already $9,000 as it is!!) I can see where the XL H1 system has its place, but what I keep reading is how wonderful the XL2 was for independent filmmakers. I don't see the XL H1 as a logical extention of that line at all.
MattC
Veteran
I don't see why HD-SDI is worthless for indie filmmakers - depending on your definition. If you talking about no-budget folks doing a run and gun, stealing shots to make an el-cheapo film, then yes, it's worthless. But if you're talking about a real independent film being produced for theatrical distribution, then I don't think HD-SDI is so far fetched. Yes, you would need a tethered computer to capture the data and at least one other on set (or on location) to handle transfers/storage/logging, but for full blown film production (even a low budget one) I don't see this as a barrier at all. The lens? For now, yes, but I assume that just as with the SD XL they will release a fully manual HD lens. If Canon continues as it has, that lens will be better than any other comparable option.
My only concern is the 24F thing and how that will look and how it would transfer to film. If that turns out to be crap, then the camera will be useless to indie filmmakers. If on the other hand it turns out to be great, then this camera would, to me, be the ticket.
By the way, for those of us concerned with audio, it looks like a big leap forward over the XL2 which already provides stunning audio for a camcorder.
Matt
My only concern is the 24F thing and how that will look and how it would transfer to film. If that turns out to be crap, then the camera will be useless to indie filmmakers. If on the other hand it turns out to be great, then this camera would, to me, be the ticket.
By the way, for those of us concerned with audio, it looks like a big leap forward over the XL2 which already provides stunning audio for a camcorder.
Matt
MattC said:
By the time you have pissed around capturing uncompressed HD onto your $10,000 RAID, which you'll need several of for a feature; paid all the extra crew to lug around, set up and operate the system you could have shot on Varicam or film and have a far better picture.
HD-SDI is too hardcore for this camera. If there was a manageable compressor and storage solution, it would help, but that should be built in to the camera!