New Canon EOS 1D X Mark ll
- Thread starter Gary W
- Start date
roxics
Veteran
Maybe they'll release a 5D C instead?
Imagine what that would be like if they redesigned the 5D to have an articulating screen by default and then made a C model of it with all the features you're looking for.
In some ways it would make more sense to me to have a 5D C than a 1D C mkII. The 5D is what most people really jumped on for video work. The lower end body would allow them to bring a C varient into the space between the $3500 5DmkIV and the $6000 1DXmkII. The only conflict would be the C100mkII.
Canon feels like they're about a year behind in their releases, and doesn't seem to be able to keep up with Sony. The FS7 is a better deal than the C300mk2, their ability or willingness to put 4k in their stills cameras effectively (still using Motion JPEG on the 1Dx2), certain sensor innovations are just catching up, their mirrorless line has been garbage so far even compared to Nikon. It seems like it's just a question of electronics. They're lucky that at least their lens department and lineup is one of the strongest, and will continue to be. Sony's still scrambling to catch up, and has it split in too many directions.
combatentropy
Veteran
I agree.
Sony seems to give the best bang for the buck right now, with the A6300, FS5, and FS7.
Canon seems to deilver solid cameras, for twice the price. But since the first C300, Canon is moving along so much faster than it used to. In 2004, their big announcement was the XL1S.
All the rest, including JVC and Panasonic (and Blackmagic and Red), are like awkward teenagers.
Sony seems to give the best bang for the buck right now, with the A6300, FS5, and FS7.
Canon seems to deilver solid cameras, for twice the price. But since the first C300, Canon is moving along so much faster than it used to. In 2004, their big announcement was the XL1S.
All the rest, including JVC and Panasonic (and Blackmagic and Red), are like awkward teenagers.
I thought Panasonic did really well with the GH4. It delivered a lot for the money, and even though I feel it's been outclassed a bit now, it came at the right moment. A lot of GH4 owners are probably happy, and not itching to switch.
They can. They choose not to. At least, they choose not to market a $2,000 4K DSLR while they are marketing a $2,000 4K fixed lens camcorder. There are many explanations for it. Some, like the self-crippling of 1D XII, may be due to their internal company politics/managerial decision (Canon stills shooters, which is a majority of Canon customers, seem to love it); others may be due to deals/agreements with competing manufacturers, which is a legal practice in Japan.
i already own an A7SII and 4 of the top obvious FE lenses and also have an adapter. i like the system pretty much. still i prefer canon cameras any day of the week over the sony look.
david
Last edited:
read somewhere that normal compact flash cards work in 4k for 24,25,30fps but not 50,60p
combatentropy
Veteran
It's called a "keiretsu" system - something like "vertical integration" from the purely economics perspective - but, in practice, cartels are indeed legal in Japan.
In terms of development/new products, it resembles a chess board - follow the analogy here - all the white squares are filled but there's enough room left with black squares to avoid the direct competition from Model X to Model Y even if those models come from two completely different and, on-paper, competing entities. The chess board subsequently gets "scrambled" as the technology goes forward and all the squares are filled once these initial agreements expire usually in 12-18 month time. It's also legal to come to other agreements such as what was taking place with Nikon and Sony where Sony sold Nikon its latest, state-of-the-art sensors (sensors that Nikon could not make by themselves) in exchange for Nikon staying away from the 4K video market.
The way the photo-video consumer market worked was, as an example, like this : Panasonic was allowed by all the companies to be the sole low-mid end 4K provider. It'd make sense for several reasons. Panasonic was using the smallest size sensor and, once again, was buying them from Sony anyway. So Panasonic introduced GH4, LX100 and FZ1000 and a couple of camcorders while everyone else found an PR excuse why they were not making 4K photo-video hybrids for under $2,000. But it's not that there were no photo-video hybrids for under $2,000. It's just that, if you had wanted one, you had to buy Panasonic. Not Sony. Not Nikon. Not Canon. Not Fuji. Not Olympus. And this was during the time where smartphones began to feature 4K. Coincidence? I think not. And, then when you look at other segments, you see Canon with a $2,000 4K camcorder but not Panasonic or Sony. You see Panasonic with a $4,000 4K camcorder but not Canon or Sony. You see an $8,000 4K camera from Sony but not from Canon or Panasonic. In other words, there's a 12-18 month market exclusivity given to a particular model from a particular manufacturer in a particular market segment. Once this non-compete term expires, however, there are immediately more entrants into these given segments.
The idea behind is, I ASSUME, is to give the manufacturers a greater ability to recoup their initial investments in the R&D and so forth, which is much easier to do when there's no competition. A cartel commission might say something like this in defense, "There is demand for only 100,000 sub-$2,000 4K cameras this season. If there are half a dozen models from half a dozen manufacturers vying for supremacy in this segment, no one makes money and thus no one wants to invest in a risky project". With a market segment to itself, the financial returns are far more probable. The consumer choice is much more limited during this early period but, at least, there's something. And, once again, after these periods expire, there's basically a free-for-all.
And, suffice it to say, these 12-18 month gaps are some of the reasons that allow companies like Red and BMD to jump into the fray with superior specs. Another part is that larger companies will often have a longer camera cycle because they do indeed want to recoup their original investments and the manufacturing cost of a model in Year 3 is probably one third of what it was in Year 0.
PS. Since this is a 1D X MKII thread, I'd venture an opinion that it is more of a result of intentional self-crippling by Canon, in order to avoid cannibalizing its Cinema series sales. Ideally, it should have had a 264 based codec for 4K - as it is, it's only in 1080! - and a 10-bit internal recording. Canon's own MXF is almost perfect for a CFast2.0 enabled camera. A much more affordable $2,000 XC-10 camera has had it upon its introduction but a $6,000 unit, for some unexplained reason, does not.
Now, how would we know if my opinion is correct? If Canon compliments 1D XII with a $6,000-$8,000 pro tier camera in the class of FS5/7. If it doesn't for a while, it means that Sony has the dibs in the segment and putting a high bitrate H264 based codec is verboten for the time being. But even then, FS7 has been around since late 2014 and an 18-moth protection period takes us right up to PhotoKina.
Now, how would we know if my opinion is correct? If Canon compliments 1D XII with a $6,000-$8,000 pro tier camera in the class of FS5/7. If it doesn't for a while, it means that Sony has the dibs in the segment and putting a high bitrate H264 based codec is verboten for the time being. But even then, FS7 has been around since late 2014 and an 18-moth protection period takes us right up to PhotoKina.
Andrius Simutis
Veteran
Yes, but not exactly normal ones. To record 4k you'll need to use the same kind of super fast ones that 5D3 owners use to record ML raw footage. 100mbs? 1000x? I can't remember the exact spec, just that it's the same ones that you'd use for raw on 5D3.
AndreeOnline
Veteran
You want at least 1000x.
When I first got my 1Dc I used a Transcend 1000x card with VPG20. It worked without issues for about 2 years. With increased wear, the camera would occasionally fill the buffer and stop recording. Ideally you'll want a VPG65 card like the Sandisk Extreme Pro I use now. They are branded as 165MB/s cards, but the main thing is the VPG65 branding. It's a 65MB/s sustained write guarantee specifically for 4k video cameras.
My current SD E P 128GB card cost about 178CHF which is about the same in USD.
I much prefer the mjpeg solution to h264. First of all, the quality is way better. There is just so much less compression in the mjpeg files (plus they are intra-frames so no motion compression) that the grain remains great and the image quality is basically the same as shooting in jpeg. The 1Dc looks way, wayyy better than the a7r, a7s lines and that's because the compression for example. in the a7s ii just destroyes a lot of the little details of the 4k image.
I think that's why they went with mjpeg. The camera already has a jpeg pipeline. Granted you wont want to shoot hours and hours of documentary with this thing but that's not a huge negative in this case.
Scott Freestyle
Well-known member
I'm very excited about picking up the 1DX mkii because it has features that are perfect for the kind of work that I do. I love working with DSLR's, because I love the fact that I have one item that can shoot high res RAW images, timelapses and shoot video. I am all about being a compact so that I can move and set up quickly. There are always going to be pro's and con's, but the 1DX pretty much has everything that I have wanted for a while.. I have used a 70D on a project and the touch screen was a brilliant, as was the focus racking feature, so I am looking forward to having these available on a camera that can shoot 4k 60p...
The Cfast cards make this camera pretty future proof, this will probably be good for at least the next 3 years... so I'm in.
The Cfast cards make this camera pretty future proof, this will probably be good for at least the next 3 years... so I'm in.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Been browsing through the hefty manual a bit...lots of little notes but some points that I came across:
- 120p is for 29.97p or 25p playback (same as XC10)
- Has LINE level audio
- No 4K recording via HDMI
- 2 hours and 20 minutes recording time for 1080/30p (IPB) with Movie Servo Auto-Focus DISABLED...doesn't mention 1080/60P, or any 4K times. I hope it's then not like 30 minutes per battery for 4K/60P with Movie Servo AF ENABLED, ha.
- 4K internal temperature warnings are mentioned (will be interesting to see if overheating issues exist)
- Color sampling for 4K: YCbCr 4:2:2 (8-bit), Full HD: YCbCr4:2:0 (8-bit)
- Color matrix for 4K: Rec. ITU-R BT.601, Full HD: Rec. ITU-R BT.709
- "If you shoot something that has fine detail, moire or false colors may result."
- Can't magnify image when recording
I'm really interested to see how AF works with an external monitor/recorder. [Doesn't seem to work well (or at all) with the A6300.]
- 120p is for 29.97p or 25p playback (same as XC10)
- Has LINE level audio
- No 4K recording via HDMI
- 2 hours and 20 minutes recording time for 1080/30p (IPB) with Movie Servo Auto-Focus DISABLED...doesn't mention 1080/60P, or any 4K times. I hope it's then not like 30 minutes per battery for 4K/60P with Movie Servo AF ENABLED, ha.
- 4K internal temperature warnings are mentioned (will be interesting to see if overheating issues exist)
- Color sampling for 4K: YCbCr 4:2:2 (8-bit), Full HD: YCbCr4:2:0 (8-bit)
- Color matrix for 4K: Rec. ITU-R BT.601, Full HD: Rec. ITU-R BT.709
- "If you shoot something that has fine detail, moire or false colors may result."
- Can't magnify image when recording
I'm really interested to see how AF works with an external monitor/recorder. [Doesn't seem to work well (or at all) with the A6300.]
Based on my experience with the 70D, I would not expect longer that 1 hour per battery recording times (and that is optimistic I believe). Although 1DXII uses different batteries, AF draws much energy and if an IS lens is used, things are getting even worst...of course I will never be able to test it...that camera is a dream...but waaaay out of my budget...haha
