Erich Roland
New member
21st century
21st century
Your right Buck redundancy has become a HUGE issue these days. The need for redundancy never really existed when we were recording to tape. This new digital world of having to move the material around so many times where you cant see the image or feel the tape makes for nervous consumers who are backing up the back ups! I will bet that everyone who uses this new record technology has either lost some material themselves or knows someone who has a sad story to tell. It’s not uncommon to hit the wrong button or have a corrupt file, etc. Life was much easier with tape and the confidence we had is missed today. This very forum is a testament to the many needs people have in navigating these new complicated technologies.
Things have changed fast and it could change again next year, and the year after, this is a big part of the problem I speak of. As someone said over on the cow, “these aren’t cameras, they are computers with lenses”. We all know what happens with computers… every 2 years you need a new one! Well Panasonic and Sony love this idea, but the customer who may be faced with a huge investment does NOT love this idea. A 2,000 dollar computer every 2 years is one thing but how about a 40k Varicam every 2 years! Many cameraman I talk to are very uncomfortable (and not buying) for this reason.
If I were building a camera today I would design a modular system that might have only "built in" 2 memory slots for the smallest memory card for the most “compact” configuration. Then have you P2 brain and module that would connect to the rear in a slick solid contemporary way. I would also design a tape record module also for those wanting tape to bypass that which many struggle with…. how to archive. And then you’re also ready for the next advancement in memory storage without having to trash a great camera. Camera advancements seems much slower then data movement advances so the need for a camera section update might not come nearly as fast as the "rear" of these "Camera-recorders".
Buck, you seem to like the idea of cheap flash media and many other people seem to feel similarly. If they can buy flash memory for close to the price of what we are used to for tape then the producer can possibly justify leaving the original material on the cards as the archive medium and bypass the achieve issue many people have.
There is no one answer and this is why Modularity might capture a large portion of the people who don’t like the idea of P2 and/or don’t like the idea of buying an expensive camera that can quite probably be outdated long before its natural life span is over.
Chis C over in the Varicam area of the "Cow" spoke about the reality of these memory vehicles very well in the thread I pointed towards in my last post here. We have beautiful very capable cameras, and powerful fast edit systems, and many are in a tizzy about how to move 1’s and 0’s from here to there. A lot has been made out of these vehicles, P2, SxS, XD-cam, tape…. I realize there is a company’s record codec, proxie's, etc mixed into the equation, but these are digital memory vehicles that basically store and move digits. Barry went on about how the P2 vehicle is the best most robust vessel made… and it may be just that. But I don’t trust it will stay that way and I like the idea of having a choice in the matter.
I believe Modularity is the way to solve this problem. I’ve been aware of the new JVC cameras for a while and finally got to see the 700 yesterday. Very smart designed camera with modular memory built into the system. Some say JVC, ugh! Well it’s the first Japanese company that I’ve seen get smart about this very issue, and the camera looks great!
Consumers want choices in this 21st century and JVC has designed a cool system to accommodate. Red has also built a system where you can choose an outboard CF drive or a bigger flash module, or a hard drive. Red understand that if you “build in” the digit storage vehicle you are probably building in “obsolescence”, when the next advancement comes (and they are coming fast). Others will soon follow this obvious solution to this 21st century problem of giving the consumer options and “investment security”.
Buck, I appreciate your offer to post my note that started this thread, but most here are hostel and not willing to think outside of there circumstance. They think I’m a troll and have come to bash Panasonic, but they don’t get that I most likely have a bigger investment in Panasonic products then most here by a large margin and want them to prosper and succeed. I’ve followed your invitation over to this forum to see if there were people willing to think about what’s next or what could be a better mousetrap. P2 was first launched when ONE GB memory cards were the largest available! I want these companies to build smarter for “what’s coming next” and not build “obsolescence” into these cameras or (more to the point) actually build “death” into the system like Panasonic has done with the new E series p2 cards.
Why would you build limited life into a memory card? Clearly Panasonic is not interested in building gear to last like they used to do, they would rather you have to replace cameras and cards as fast as possible! This is one reason why many customers don’t trust this company anymore! A lot of the moves this company has made in the last few years are not too smart in my book and many I have talked to agree (3700 anyone?). Barry have at it…. take me back to your DV court.
Later, ER
21st century
Your right Buck redundancy has become a HUGE issue these days. The need for redundancy never really existed when we were recording to tape. This new digital world of having to move the material around so many times where you cant see the image or feel the tape makes for nervous consumers who are backing up the back ups! I will bet that everyone who uses this new record technology has either lost some material themselves or knows someone who has a sad story to tell. It’s not uncommon to hit the wrong button or have a corrupt file, etc. Life was much easier with tape and the confidence we had is missed today. This very forum is a testament to the many needs people have in navigating these new complicated technologies.
Things have changed fast and it could change again next year, and the year after, this is a big part of the problem I speak of. As someone said over on the cow, “these aren’t cameras, they are computers with lenses”. We all know what happens with computers… every 2 years you need a new one! Well Panasonic and Sony love this idea, but the customer who may be faced with a huge investment does NOT love this idea. A 2,000 dollar computer every 2 years is one thing but how about a 40k Varicam every 2 years! Many cameraman I talk to are very uncomfortable (and not buying) for this reason.
If I were building a camera today I would design a modular system that might have only "built in" 2 memory slots for the smallest memory card for the most “compact” configuration. Then have you P2 brain and module that would connect to the rear in a slick solid contemporary way. I would also design a tape record module also for those wanting tape to bypass that which many struggle with…. how to archive. And then you’re also ready for the next advancement in memory storage without having to trash a great camera. Camera advancements seems much slower then data movement advances so the need for a camera section update might not come nearly as fast as the "rear" of these "Camera-recorders".
Buck, you seem to like the idea of cheap flash media and many other people seem to feel similarly. If they can buy flash memory for close to the price of what we are used to for tape then the producer can possibly justify leaving the original material on the cards as the archive medium and bypass the achieve issue many people have.
There is no one answer and this is why Modularity might capture a large portion of the people who don’t like the idea of P2 and/or don’t like the idea of buying an expensive camera that can quite probably be outdated long before its natural life span is over.
Chis C over in the Varicam area of the "Cow" spoke about the reality of these memory vehicles very well in the thread I pointed towards in my last post here. We have beautiful very capable cameras, and powerful fast edit systems, and many are in a tizzy about how to move 1’s and 0’s from here to there. A lot has been made out of these vehicles, P2, SxS, XD-cam, tape…. I realize there is a company’s record codec, proxie's, etc mixed into the equation, but these are digital memory vehicles that basically store and move digits. Barry went on about how the P2 vehicle is the best most robust vessel made… and it may be just that. But I don’t trust it will stay that way and I like the idea of having a choice in the matter.
I believe Modularity is the way to solve this problem. I’ve been aware of the new JVC cameras for a while and finally got to see the 700 yesterday. Very smart designed camera with modular memory built into the system. Some say JVC, ugh! Well it’s the first Japanese company that I’ve seen get smart about this very issue, and the camera looks great!
Consumers want choices in this 21st century and JVC has designed a cool system to accommodate. Red has also built a system where you can choose an outboard CF drive or a bigger flash module, or a hard drive. Red understand that if you “build in” the digit storage vehicle you are probably building in “obsolescence”, when the next advancement comes (and they are coming fast). Others will soon follow this obvious solution to this 21st century problem of giving the consumer options and “investment security”.
Buck, I appreciate your offer to post my note that started this thread, but most here are hostel and not willing to think outside of there circumstance. They think I’m a troll and have come to bash Panasonic, but they don’t get that I most likely have a bigger investment in Panasonic products then most here by a large margin and want them to prosper and succeed. I’ve followed your invitation over to this forum to see if there were people willing to think about what’s next or what could be a better mousetrap. P2 was first launched when ONE GB memory cards were the largest available! I want these companies to build smarter for “what’s coming next” and not build “obsolescence” into these cameras or (more to the point) actually build “death” into the system like Panasonic has done with the new E series p2 cards.
Why would you build limited life into a memory card? Clearly Panasonic is not interested in building gear to last like they used to do, they would rather you have to replace cameras and cards as fast as possible! This is one reason why many customers don’t trust this company anymore! A lot of the moves this company has made in the last few years are not too smart in my book and many I have talked to agree (3700 anyone?). Barry have at it…. take me back to your DV court.
Later, ER
