^^ Withholds any personal opinions or commentary on the NFL since he doesn't play in the NFL and never will.rogar-BigGrin(DBG)
Ha haaa perfect.
Nailed it. Thanks for being a crtitcal thinker.
C200: Netflix Approved List: Is the lack of TC in the only reason it was snubbed?
- Thread starter Fahnon
- Start date
Ha haaa perfect.
Nailed it. Thanks for being a crtitcal thinker.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Exactly right, which is why people sticking their heads in the sand on a long term investment get what they deserve. If a piece of gear is only good enough for today then you best plan to pay it off quickly. If you want it to last long in the future then you should purchase accordingly. That’s like buying full frame lenses even if you have no intent on shooting anything but Super 35 for now. It’s not like we didn’t all see 4K coming.
I used to own about $60K worth of Super-16 gear. I bought it over time for jobs that paid for the majority of the investment. It kept paying for itself for years and I loved that kit, but I was always ready to dump it in a second if I needed to move on. It’s a business and a craft.
A lack of timecode input is indeed a serious drawback for the workflow of even mildly mid sized productions.
This was I bet an intentional decision to cripple the C200 to keep it out of being the main camera for anything but the smaller productions.
Yes.
Tentacles with Aux LTC are a "work around".
Wouldn't it be better to not fluff with work arounds?
When there are tonnes and tonnes of better options!
Netflix is the one paying for it, they can say whatever terms they like. And this in my eyes is a very practical and reasonable request, if so.
This was I bet an intentional decision to cripple the C200 to keep it out of being the main camera for anything but the smaller productions.
Yes.
Tentacles with Aux LTC are a "work around".
Wouldn't it be better to not fluff with work arounds?
When there are tonnes and tonnes of better options!
Netflix is the one paying for it, they can say whatever terms they like. And this in my eyes is a very practical and reasonable request, if so.
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Are we really certain the C200 has been disqualified? Do we actually know that all modes of the Canon C200 have been evaluated, also Canon RAW Light?
Or is it just that the C200 is currently not on a list, but might appear later?
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Valid point. There is a published list from Netflix that shows what cameras are currently qualified and using what record settings. Netflix does not publish disqualifications and does not publicly share information on what cameras have been tested.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
And it could be Netflix doesn't test particular/all cameras until a production they want to commission REALLY wants to use a particular camera. Also, this all just applies to commissioned work, not acquired/licensed work, right? At least for now.
And on the documentary side, Netflix has shown some flexibility with all this. For example, Icarus was IIRC largely shot on a C300mk1, but Netflix bought it (and paid for a lot of work on the graphics, grade, etc), but called it an Original (as in commissioned). Worked for the filmmakers and Netflix in the end.
Also, with Netflix's budgets, I think DPs can find a camera on the current list that they'll be happy with and can afford to rent, if nothing else.
Also also: it's cool that they're looking at and approving lower-cost cameras such as BMD's and the EVA1. (Congrats Mitch!)
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Mitch Gross
Veteran
In general I believe the manufacturers make new cameras available to Netflix as soon as practical. Netflix isn't just some faceless behemoth. The people responsible for these standards follow new announcements and trade show reporting just like the rest of us. In many ways they're ahead of the game because, well because they're Netflix. If a camera is likely to be one their producers may wish to use or if they're simply hearing enough buzz then Netflix will wish to test one out. This is also true of Discovery, HBO, Vice, and a host of others.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
Yep, my indirect interactions (via a couple producers) with Netflix's production staff show them to be fairly responsive and collaborative. Arguably moreso than some parts of PBS & Disco.
>If a camera is likely to be one their producers may wish to use
I think that's a crux for the C200, frankly. I'd think stuff shot on C200s would be more likely to be acquired or licensed.
>If a camera is likely to be one their producers may wish to use
I think that's a crux for the C200, frankly. I'd think stuff shot on C200s would be more likely to be acquired or licensed.
So an interesting update on this. I came across an article where the writer actually asked Netflix directly about this and got an answer. Turns out my guess wasn’t far off, and it is TC that is a problem for them.
“As stated from Netflix’s Partner Support answer: “C200 can be accepted on a case-by-case basis only if doing RAW capture. The C200 meets our capture spec only when doing RAW capture. It is not on our list of approved cameras due to its lack of a timecode input.”
NF then hedged and added: “The C200 is not an approved as a primary camera for Netflix 4K Originals. However, it can be used, but it depends on multiple variables that come into play, like the type of production and how it is being managed (originally produced, acquisition, distribution, licensed).”
Full article here:
https://ymcinema.com/2019/04/18/canon-c200-is-netflix-approved-only-when-shooting-raw/
This makes sense. You can shoot on the c300-2 and the fidelity of the recording is technically lower than RAW, so it’s unlikely that the actual picture is an issue. The article incorrectly says raw lite isn’t “real raw” and gets who was the OP wrong (Mitch gets all the credit :happy
, but as they’re just passing along what they got from NF, I’ll believe them.
“As stated from Netflix’s Partner Support answer: “C200 can be accepted on a case-by-case basis only if doing RAW capture. The C200 meets our capture spec only when doing RAW capture. It is not on our list of approved cameras due to its lack of a timecode input.”
NF then hedged and added: “The C200 is not an approved as a primary camera for Netflix 4K Originals. However, it can be used, but it depends on multiple variables that come into play, like the type of production and how it is being managed (originally produced, acquisition, distribution, licensed).”
Full article here:
https://ymcinema.com/2019/04/18/canon-c200-is-netflix-approved-only-when-shooting-raw/
This makes sense. You can shoot on the c300-2 and the fidelity of the recording is technically lower than RAW, so it’s unlikely that the actual picture is an issue. The article incorrectly says raw lite isn’t “real raw” and gets who was the OP wrong (Mitch gets all the credit :happy
, but as they’re just passing along what they got from NF, I’ll believe them.Mitch Gross
Veteran
Thanks for pointing this article out; I hadn’t seen it. I just posted the following reply there.
So nice to be quoted, thank you. But I must point out that I feel it is misleading to post an image showing the Netflix logo, the C200 and a large check mark. The implication is that people can go ahead and shoot with the camera for a Netflix project and it will be accepted. This is absolutely NOT the case. Pre-approval for the use must be sought for any camera not on the approved list. Under certain circumstances many cameras will be allowed by Netflix, but filmmakers will need to argue their case for the use of the camera first. Don’t expect “because I own one” or “I like the look” to be reason enough. You would need to explain why in a specific situation a particular non-approved camera would be more appropriate than an approved one.
So nice to be quoted, thank you. But I must point out that I feel it is misleading to post an image showing the Netflix logo, the C200 and a large check mark. The implication is that people can go ahead and shoot with the camera for a Netflix project and it will be accepted. This is absolutely NOT the case. Pre-approval for the use must be sought for any camera not on the approved list. Under certain circumstances many cameras will be allowed by Netflix, but filmmakers will need to argue their case for the use of the camera first. Don’t expect “because I own one” or “I like the look” to be reason enough. You would need to explain why in a specific situation a particular non-approved camera would be more appropriate than an approved one.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
On the other side of the coin, I'm sure you folks will find this amusing. Last year I shot a half hour comedy for NBC called "Champions". We were mandated by the network to acquire and master in 1080p. In 2018. Their feeling is apparently that the visual difference between 1080 and 4K isn't enough to justify the additional media storage.
One would think that between the 4:3 to 16:9 framing debacles of the early 2000's and the SD to HD switch thereafter, some lessons would be learned...
One would think that between the 4:3 to 16:9 framing debacles of the early 2000's and the SD to HD switch thereafter, some lessons would be learned...
puredrifting
Major Contributor
This sounds like what I go through too, I am constantly being directed to only acquire in 1080 for the same reasons. Did a recent BTS shoot for a large cable channel and that was the deal for them, don't shoot 4K, 1080 only. It can be frustrating but when the client is paying the bill, you kind of have to do what they specify. The project I shot on was totally disposable, not something that will be watched much or matter in a few years so it's not a big deal I guess?
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
When a client tells me 1080, as I backup all footage for my freelance jobs, I think, “Saves me $10-$20 of hard drive space per day and means a seven minute card transfer instead of an hour.” Sounds good to me!
When I shoot 48 Hour films I’ve been doing 1080 on the Amira to save time, as the quality difference is not significant but the time saving is.
When I shoot 48 Hour films I’ve been doing 1080 on the Amira to save time, as the quality difference is not significant but the time saving is.
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CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Indeed. You would think perhaps that their actual prime-time programming would get a more future-thinking approach (or even present, since many households have 4K TV's), especially given the obvious syndication value they've had from re-transferring film-acquired 4:3 shows to 16:9 HD, vs anything that was shot on tape being stuck in 4:3 SD.
scorsesefan
Veteran
Netflix should worry less about this type of stuff and focus instead on producing and acquiring some decent and thought provoking content (with the exception of some of the creators on this forum 
Dictating what tools creators are able to use is such a slap in the face to the reality that film is art. I would love MOMA to start telling painters what brush widths and canvas sizes they can use and see how that goes over...
Dictating what tools creators are able to use is such a slap in the face to the reality that film is art. I would love MOMA to start telling painters what brush widths and canvas sizes they can use and see how that goes over...
NorBro
Major Contributor
They are simply setting standards like any corporation would do and does, and protecting potential investments.
People could still make thought-provoking content but can't have it shot on a DVX100 because modern-day humans would think something is wrong with their TVs.
You're thinking about the art while they are thinking about the money.
People could still make thought-provoking content but can't have it shot on a DVX100 because modern-day humans would think something is wrong with their TVs.
You're thinking about the art while they are thinking about the money.
Seinfeld got 16:9 from 4:3. And most of their reframes don't look too hot.
But this goes back to "I love Lucy" being filmed on 16mm by Karl Freund. Karl made Lucy and Ricky and Ricky, Jr and Lucy, Jr. a ton of dough.
John Brawley
Well-known member
I shoot a network drama show for Fox. 4.7 million per episode...
They broadcast in 720. If you want to watch 1080 you have to go seek it out elsewhere and yeah, they only master in 1080. They have kittens when you try and bring up 4K origination...
JB