Nab 2016

Did Blackmagic start shipping the 4.6K Ursa Mini because they know that someone will announce a better camera at NAB? Something that will impact their sales heavily?
 
They probably made the ship decision based on the nearness of NAB. They themselves probably have products to announce at NAB, and they're already at the point where no one's likely to give any ship dates even a lick of credence, but if they weren't even shipping last year's gear by NAB, who'd pay attention to what they announce this year?
 
Tamerlin said:
They probably made the ship decision based on the nearness of NAB. They themselves probably have products to announce at NAB, and they're already at the point where no one's likely to give any ship dates even a lick of credence, but if they weren't even shipping last year's gear by NAB, who'd pay attention to what they announce this year?
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They can't reasonably announce a new 4K camera, either, now that they've just started shipping the hobbled Mini 4.6K. I'm wondering if we'll see any new sub-$10K 4K cameras.
 
Tzedekh said:
They can't reasonably announce a new 4K camera, either, now that they've just started shipping the hobbled Mini 4.6K. I'm wondering if we'll see any new sub-$10K 4K cameras.
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They'll probably be taking some heat for this one for a while, especially if they announce new products estimated to ship in July...

We'll most likely see some new sub-$10k 4K cameras. It would be surprising if we didn't.
 
Tzedekh said:
They can't reasonably announce a new 4K camera, either, now that they've just started shipping the hobbled Mini 4.6K. I'm wondering if we'll see any new sub-$10K 4K cameras.
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The new camera may not have global shutter, but it is hardly hobbled. Actually it's some of the best footage I've seen coming from any camera with it's dual gain architecture as well.
Frankly you can do a lot worse for $5K.
I'm not a Blackmagic fan, but this is a good camera. I think they are going to sell a lot of these.
 
yoclay said:
The new camera may not have global shutter, but it is hardly hobbled. Actually it's some of the best footage I've seen coming from any camera with it's dual gain architecture as well.
Frankly you can do a lot worse for $5K.
I'm not a Blackmagic fan, but this is a good camera. I think they are going to sell a lot of these.
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GPS and the much ballyhooed global shutter (which if memory serves, was supposed to have a dynamic range in excess of 13 stops) have been removed. I call that a hobbling -- or, if you prefer, a feature reduction.

On a side note, I'm not sure I understand the $2K price difference between the two Ursa Mini models. What's different is the sensor. The CMV12000 in the Mini 4K costs, I believe, about $1.5K per unit purchase individually and maybe $1K in large quantities. The Mini 4.6K's sensor R&D and production would have to have driven up the per-unit price significantly to explain the difference in price between the two versions of the Mini.
 
Tzedekh said:
GPS and the much ballyhooed global shutter (which if memory serves, was supposed to have a dynamic range in excess of 13 stops) have been removed. I call that a hobbling -- or, if you prefer, a feature reduction.
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It's a feature reduction to be sure, but from all indications is still a great camera, especially for the price.

On a side note, I'm not sure I understand the $2K price difference between the two Ursa Mini models. What's different is the sensor. The CMV12000 in the Mini 4K costs, I believe, about $1.5K per unit purchase individually and maybe $1K in large quantities. The Mini 4.6K's sensor R&D and production would have to have driven up the per-unit price significantly to explain the difference in price between the two versions of the Mini.
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Their 4K sensor is an off-the-shelf design, used by anyone who wants to use it. That enables Cmosis (according to the best guess we have) to share the cost of their R&D and manufacturing over all of their CMV12000 customers, and it's also been around for quite a while, so they've probably more than recouped their cost to develop it.

The 4.6K sensor on the other hand is brand new, and is custom developed for BMD. That put a significant R&D cost burden on BMD as well as limiting the market for that sensor to BMD, which leads to more costs for BMD to cover. The price difference is pretty reasonable all things considered, even without the global shutter.
 
Reading the tea leaves interspersed with the coffee grounds. An interview with "Senior Advisor, Film and TV Production at Canon" Tim Smith.


Q What are you expecting to be "trending" or very popular at NAB?


A I think you will be seeing some low-cost high-quality offerings that open up many possibilities for both big-and small-budget productions.
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http://nabhub.com/interview/121/canon-talks-the-arrival-of-8k-at-nab-2016

(This was first posted on the Canon EOS sub-forum)
 
Tzedekh said:
... On a side note, I'm not sure I understand the $2K price difference between the two Ursa Mini models. What's different is the sensor. The CMV12000 in the Mini 4K costs, I believe, about $1.5K per unit purchase individually and maybe $1K in large quantities.i.
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$1,463, as per their own web site. I suspect that, in large quantities, the actual price is negotiated down to about half of that.
 
Tamerlin said:
It's a feature reduction to be sure, but from all indications is still a great camera, especially for the price.



Their 4K sensor is an off-the-shelf design, used by anyone who wants to use it. That enables Cmosis (according to the best guess we have) to share the cost of their R&D and manufacturing over all of their CMV12000 customers, and it's also been around for quite a while, so they've probably more than recouped their cost to develop it.

The 4.6K sensor on the other hand is brand new, and is custom developed for BMD. That put a significant R&D cost burden on BMD as well as limiting the market for that sensor to BMD, which leads to more costs for BMD to cover. The price difference is pretty reasonable all things considered, even without the global shutter.
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I think I read that the 4.6K is also an off the shelf sensor, only CMOSIS signed a contract preventing them from selling the sensor to other cinema camera companies.
 
IanTheM said:
I think I read that the 4.6K is also an off the shelf sensor, only CMOSIS signed a contract preventing them from selling the sensor to other cinema camera companies.
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CMOSIS probably didn't develop the 4.6K sensor. It was likely developed by Fairchild, who made the sensors for the BMCC and the Pocket.
 
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Tzedekh said:
GPS and the much ballyhooed global shutter (which if memory serves, was supposed to have a dynamic range in excess of 13 stops) have been removed. I call that a hobbling -- or, if you prefer, a feature reduction.

On a side note, I'm not sure I understand the $2K price difference between the two Ursa Mini models. What's different is the sensor. The CMV12000 in the Mini 4K costs, I believe, about $1.5K per unit purchase individually and maybe $1K in large quantities. The Mini 4.6K's sensor R&D and production would have to have driven up the per-unit price significantly to explain the difference in price between the two versions of the Mini.
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Quite likely they're accepting of having lower profit margins on the URSA Mini 4K, as it is based off something they've had for a while (BMPC4K) and has similar competitors (AJA CION, or even... a secondhand R1 MX). While the URSA Mini 4.6K has no competitors at all at its price point for raw 4.6K

On the upside.... I suppose these means odds are high within 18months we'll see a significant price reduction on the URSA Mini 4.6K??
 
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